CCTV in co-living landed house

[Ernesto79]

Hi all,

I moved to Singapore about 3 months ago and found a lovely shophouse with one of the co-living companies. Recently I discovered a video camera near the front entrance of the house which faces the house entrance and front yard. The camera was unmarked and looked like it could have been purchased and installed by anyone. The co-living company never informed me that they have CCTV's on the property nor is it covered in the contract or T&C's nor is the camera marked as being CCTV. Since there's a lot of people moving in and out of the house, which has 12 bedrooms, I felt there's a chance, albeit small chance, that it wasn't put up by the co-living company therefore I unplugged the camera thinking that if it was unauthorized I got rid of a peeping Tom or if it is a CCTV put up by the company they would inform me/us and we'd plug it back in.

It turned out to be owned and installed by the co-living company and for me unplugging it they've terminated my contract giving me 7 days to me out. Shocking in almost every situation but with these guys I wasn't surprised.

My question to the forum is... Does the company need to physically identify the CCTV's and/or inform their tenants of the existence of them?

You're help would be greatly appreciated!

[sundaymorningstaple]

My question would be did you follow protocol before unplugging or disabling something the was not within a rented lockable space, e.g., bedroom/bath. If it were on the grounds of the building outside, I'm thinking you might have been in the wrong as it is not any of your business how the owner protects the outside of his property. I may be wrong, but I think you were in the wrong by not approaching the owners in the first instance instead of being judge/jury/disabler on something that was not yours but on the property of the owner.

If I were the owner, I would think you may have been doing something that you didn't want the owners to see else why would you have disabled it without first approaching the owner?

I live in a HDB flat. We have CCTV all over the place. Do they ask if they can put them up? Of course not. The grounds of the housing estate belong to the HDB and they can protect their property any way they can. They don't need to ask the residents for their permission as the owners or renters only own/rent the interiors of the units, not the exteriors.

[abbby]

The owners will not need to inform you of its existence, it's placed in or within their premises so they would have the right to install it if they wish to. Most often, the CCTV will help to identify break-ins, thefts, loansharks to name a few...

In this instance, I would have thought you could have checked with the owners and not unplug their CCTV. It's out in the open and not in your bedroom which will then be a different story.

[malcontent]

If you had suspected something and wanted to take it upon yourself to disable it immediately before contacting the company… a smarter way would be to report to them that there is a camera that “someone” seems to have disabled (don’t know who) and ask if they know anything about it. That way you could still accomplish your objective without implicating yourself.

Life lesson: always leave yourself in a position of plausible deniability.

[x9200]

The owners will not need to inform you of its existence, it's placed in or within their premises so they would have the right to install it if they wish to.

This depends whether the placement of the camera may violate privacy of the interested party. You can not place a camera in somebody's living room just because you own the premises.

Now, whether this is also ok to have it outside but still on the grounds of rented place (common space) is a bit of the grey area. It may appear the owner has unconditional rights to do so, but imagine recording your visitors, so who comes, when etc. It may be sensitive information and also violation of privacy. I don't know if this is the case for the OP, but better be careful with the sweeping statements. It would be safer for the LL to inform the tenant about such cameras.

[smoulder]

Assuming that there was no violation of privacy, I'm guessing that they are mad at you for being a busy body. The legality aside, it's probably something you should have avoided.

[x9200]

Assuming that there was no violation of privacy, I'm guessing that they are mad at you for being a busy body. The legality aside, it's probably something you should have avoided.

Even if there is some alleged violation of privacy OP has unlikely any right to remove/disable the camera, especially if this is outside/common area.

[smoulder]

Assuming that there was no violation of privacy, I'm guessing that they are mad at you for being a busy body. The legality aside, it's probably something you should have avoided.

Even if there is some alleged violation of privacy OP has unlikely any right to remove/disable the camera, especially if this is outside/common area.

True. I meant assuming the said privacy issue involved cctv in his room.

[Ernesto79]

Thank you all for the insightful feedback so far.

A few things...
- The house is not owned by the co-living company renting it. They rent it from the owner and rent it to their "members". A lot of the comments have been around the owner being able to have CCTV.
- I have no doubt CCTV in common spaces is legal. My question is if they need to inform those living on the property or not?
- There is no mention of them taking and collecting video of the inhabitance within the contract or T&C's.
- The video camera is unmarked so can unplugging an unmarked video camera equate to "removal of effects or anything in the common areas and the unit"? That's the clause being used to evict and keep my deposit.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Whether or not it unmarked or unpluggable, if it isn't yours, they you have no right to disable it unless it is pointed through a window in your unit/room. And yes, unplugging a camera is removing a camera if it no longer operates because you took it upon yourself to take the law into your own hands. The House and property were rented as a whole by the co-living community, they would have had to give a deposit for the whole property. Therefore they are responsible for the exterior of the unit, meaning any way to secure the property, e.g., sureveillance cameras would be legal for them and illegal for you to remove or disable. Afraid your 'entitled mindset' has put you in hot water.

[Ernesto79]

I definitely wouldn't classify myself as having an 'entitled mindset'. I grew up in a dictatorship so maybe I'm not as conformable as most here that tenants are at the mercy of landlords.

The house has 12 bedrooms, so 12 people living there. Turnover is huge with 6 people having gone and new ones moving in just in the 3 months I've been here. Even though the chances were big that the unidentified, unlabeled camera was placed there by the co-living company it could have been put there by someone else. It's not like the co-living company come in and check if they've altered anything when they leave so do I blindly trust there's no malice intention by someone?

I'm not saying they can't have the camera up, of course not, but wouldn't they need to at least inform the inhabitance of the house?

[Ernesto79]

The contract also doesn't mention their ability to collect personal data

[sundaymorningstaple]

I'm not saying they can't have the camera up, of course not, but wouldn't they need to at least inform the inhabitance of the house?

I'm guessing that English isn't your first language as you have already been told several times that they don't need to if it's on the exterior of the property.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The contract also doesn't mention their ability to collect personal data

Have you bothered to notice the fact that the MRT Stations and almost every major intersection in the city has dozens of CCTV cameras everywhere? Oh, So does the airport and all are connected to mainframe computers in underground caverns here and all are equipped with facial recognition software? If a home security camera gives you the hebee-jebees you are in the wrong country.

[Ernesto79]

I'm not saying they can't have the camera up, of course not, but wouldn't they need to at least inform the inhabitance of the house?

I'm guessing that English isn't your first language as you have already been told several times that they don't need to if it's on the exterior of the property.

Wow... being called entitles and an idiot in one day. Aren't you a friendly one.