Foreigners in Government Agency Positions

[mr.green]

Hello all! Anyone is aware of a rule that stipulates foreigners may only receive Contract positions in the government, and not permanent? The HR person I am working with has told me that "Usually foreigners are issued with contractual offers that are renewed after performance reviews."

Is there any point trying to negotiate the offer, for making it permanent? Are foreigners really not offered permanent roles? And how paranoid should I be switching from a "permanent" role to a contract government role?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you so much folks.

[PNGMK]

No they're not. Almost never I should say. The iron rice bowls are for the local yokels (who need it given their crap performance).

[nelyanne]

Hello all! Anyone is aware of a rule that stipulates foreigners may only receive Contract positions in the government, and not permanent? The HR person I am working with has told me that "Usually foreigners are issued with contractual offers that are renewed after performance reviews."

Is there any point trying to negotiate the offer, for making it permanent? Are foreigners really not offered permanent roles? And how paranoid should I be switching from a "permanent" role to a contract government role?

Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thank you so much folks.

Even if the offer is "permanent", it does not mean anything, because most probably the EP will be valid only for 1 or 2 years. There's no work stability for any foreigner in Singapore. So the answer is: no, there is no point.
I've heard only about one foreigner working at the government agency and getting his EP approved was already a challenge.

[mr.green]

No they're not. Almost never I should say. The iron rice bowls are for the local…

Thanks for the insight PNGMK!

Even if the offer is "permanent", it does not mean anything, because most probably the EP will be valid only for 1 or 2 years. There's no work stability for any foreigner in Singapore. So the answer is: no, there is no point.
I've heard only about one foreigner working at the government agency and getting his EP approved was already a challenge.

Wow, I’d imagine that getting EP for a government role would be easier than a private entity. Also you’re right, technically everything is tied to the EP.

Thanks a bunch!

[smoulder]

Between a contract role on EP and a permanent role on EP, I'd definitely take the latter.

One issue is the lack of permanency, the second one is that "contract" unlike western countries is just local speak for same salary, same responsibilities as a permanent role, but with lower benefits like for instance no insurance or medical coverage for the family. There will be no proper performance appraisal either, so booting you out is as simple as not renewing your contract, whereas to boot a permanent employee for "non performance" requires a lot more justifications. Basically where I'm coming from is that they can boot you out just because someone doesn't like your shirt color or something that frivolous.

[nelyanne]

Between a contract role on EP and a permanent role on EP, I'd definitely take the latter.

One issue is the lack of permanency, the second one is that "contract" unlike western countries is just local speak for same salary, same responsibilities as a permanent role, but with lower benefits like for instance no insurance or medical coverage for the family. There will be no proper performance appraisal either, so booting you out is as simple as not renewing your contract, whereas to boot a permanent employee for "non performance" requires a lot more justifications. Basically where I'm coming from is that they can boot you out just because someone doesn't like your shirt color or something that frivolous.

But, how valid are those considerations for a typical expat in Singapore?
- Medical insurance for pass holders is mandatory. The quality of the package depends on the company.
- Performance appraisal is usually a bs. You can still create value for the company on the contract, and be appreciated for it.
- In Singapore, it's very easy to fire a person - especially a foreigner, as foreigners are the first to go anyway. I don't even think you need to formally go through PIP?

Personally, I was always rejecting roles offering short-term contracts, as I want to stay here for a long term, without stressing about finding another position after the year. But I could consider it if the role was a great opportunity for my career growth.

[mr.green]

Between a contract role on EP and a permanent role on EP, I'd definitely take the latter.

One issue is the lack of permanency, the second one is that "contract" unlike western countries is just local speak for same salary, same responsibilities as a permanent role, but with lower benefits like for instance no insurance or medical coverage for the family.

So essentially the HR person assured me both permanent and contract employees receive the exact same benefits - insurance, education and training allowance, basically everything is the same. Except for the role type in writing.

There will be no proper performance appraisal either, so booting you out is as simple as not renewing your contract, whereas to boot a permanent employee for "non performance" requires a lot more justifications. Basically where I'm coming from is that they can boot you out just because someone doesn't like your shirt color or something that frivolous.

I've seen people getting asked to resign just because companies found a cheaper resource to replace them with. Anecdotal evidence. Foreigner on paper really has no recourse.

[smoulder]

Between a contract role on EP and a permanent role on EP, I'd definitely take the latter.

One issue is the lack of permanency, the second one is that "contract" unlike western countries is just local speak for same salary, same responsibilities as a permanent role, but with lower benefits like for instance no insurance or medical coverage for the family.

So essentially the HR person assured me both permanent and contract employees receive the exact same benefits - insurance, education and training allowance, basically everything is the same. Except for the role type in writing.

There will be no proper performance appraisal either, so booting you out is as simple as not renewing your contract, whereas to boot a permanent employee for "non performance" requires a lot more justifications. Basically where I'm coming from is that they can boot you out just because someone doesn't like your shirt color or something that frivolous.

I've seen people getting asked to resign just because companies found a cheaper resource to replace them with. Anecdotal evidence. Foreigner on paper really has no recourse.

And this means that your family members get coverage too? I highly doubt that. But if it's true, then more power to you.

[x9200]

Between a contract role on EP and a permanent role on EP, I'd definitely take the latter.

One issue is the lack of permanency, the second one is that "contract" unlike western countries is just local speak for same salary, same responsibilities as a permanent role, but with lower benefits like for instance no insurance or medical coverage for the family. There will be no proper performance appraisal either, so booting you out is as simple as not renewing your contract, whereas to boot a permanent employee for "non performance" requires a lot more justifications. Basically where I'm coming from is that they can boot you out just because someone doesn't like your shirt color or something that frivolous.

I am not sure what sort of agency you have in mind but I can assure you for the state funded and maintained research agencies all the above elements are proper and in place also for the contracted staff. And if they want to fire you they can do it regardless the type of the contract.

[smoulder]

Between a contract role on EP and a permanent role on EP, I'd definitely take the latter.

One issue is the lack of permanency, the second one is that "contract" unlike western countries is just local speak for same salary, same responsibilities as a permanent role, but with lower benefits like for instance no insurance or medical coverage for the family. There will be no proper performance appraisal either, so booting you out is as simple as not renewing your contract, whereas to boot a permanent employee for "non performance" requires a lot more justifications. Basically where I'm coming from is that they can boot you out just because someone doesn't like your shirt color or something that frivolous.

I am not sure what sort of agency you have in mind but I can assure you for the state funded and maintained research agencies all the above elements are proper and in place also for the contracted staff. And if they want to fire you they can do it regardless the type of the contract.

Body shops. If I recall correctly, some of them are supplying personnel for government projects too.

[x9200]

Is it common for gov funded institutions to hire via body shops? Sounds a bit hard to believe.

[smoulder]

In IT. Not unusual.

[mr.green]

Thankfully I got the offer directly via Public Service Division, and not external Agency. So considering myself lucky. Have been interviewing for very long, and clearance checks. Thank you all for your opinions!

[malcontent]

Even if the offer is "permanent", it does not mean anything, because most probably the EP will be valid only for 1 or 2 years. There's no work stability for any foreigner in Singapore. So the answer is: no, there is no point.
I've heard only about one foreigner working at the government agency and getting his EP approved was already a challenge.

If you stay with the same employer, you usually don’t need to worry about EP approval… of course, you can never be totally sure of anything, but as a general rule, once you’re in, you’re in.

I arrived in 1996, got my first EP in 1997, haven’t changed employers this whole time. Still waiting for my employer or the government to terminate or reject me, but that hasn’t happened yet. In fact I just renewed my EP recently — good till 2025.

There was once, maybe around the 20 year mark, they sent me a survey, which in so many words asked me why I remained on an EP for all these years without leaving or pursuing PR. It basically boiled down to the fact that I have family here, and if I were on anything other than an EP, I stand to lose more benefits than I gain — at one point I estimated $100k loss.

[jalanjalan]

I worked for govt for many years (though I joined as PR). Even back then, pretty much everyone started out on contract (ie probationary period, or just contract), which used to be quite a long time, before possibly being converted/confirmed to permanent. For EPs, I'm not sure what their terms were and never asked, but they seemed ok with it. I enjoyed my time with the civil service - they don't stint on training/learning opportunities. Not a place to go and "lie flat" though, you will work for your pay.

more on civil service contracts (in general): https://www.psd.gov.sg/press-room/parli ... il-service