Impact of expat life on kids

[Wd40]

I have this question especially for long term expats who have lived here for more than 10 years and who have kids who dont identify any other place as home other than Singapore.

For us expats, we already know which is home country and will eventually go back. But I wonder about our kids. They spent their entire childhood here and would have made friends with other transient expats but eventually when they grow up and settledown somewhere in the world, which place would they identify as home? Is Singapore a home for them? But then Singapore will at the max just give them a short term visa to come and visit. But even if they come and visit, most of their friends would have moved on. So I just wonder are we really doing justice to them, by continuing to stay here for so long?

[NYY1]

I have this question especially for long term expats who have lived here for more than 10 years and who have kids who dont identify any other place as home other than Singapore.

For us expats, we already know which is home country and will eventually go back. But I wonder about our kids. They spent their entire childhood here and would have made friends with other transient expats but eventually when they grow up and settledown somewhere in the world, which place would they identify as home? Is Singapore a home for them? But then Singapore will at the max just give them a short term visa to come and visit. But even if they come and visit, most of their friends would have moved on. So I just wonder are we really doing justice to them, by continuing to stay here for so long?

It is a reasonable question and why I think some people are trying to make a bet on where they can obtain long-term residency by the time they are 30-35 (or while the kids are still relatively young and/or navigating one school system).

At the same time, it is not uncommon for kids to grow up somewhere (their birth country) for 18 years only to go off to a foreign university and never return home (at least permanently). They make a new life wherever they are. Also, people are often very different by the time they are working (values, objectives, etc) and may not have any childhood friends even if they stay local (i.e. not an issue that friends would have moved on). There are also cases of families that move around the globe every handful of years and the kids don't really have a "home" but return home (country of citizenship) to attend uni and work and things go just fine.

So in the end I don't really know whether kids are harmed by living here for 18 years and then having to go elsewhere or if they would be better off had the family packed up a decade or so earlier. The child can also try to work here upon finishing university but this may not be so easy (likely aided if attend university here).

[tiktok]

I think Singapore is a bad place for kids. It's too hot for much outside activity and the natural environment isn't great either. They end up spending too much time inside, which these days means glued to screens.

This leads to range of issues. For example, a study of 6-7 year old Chinese children in Singapore and Australia found they spend an average of 3 and 13 hours outside per week respectively, and the prevalence of myopia of Singaporean kids in the study is 29% vs 3% for the ones in Australia.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18413523/

[malcontent]

I have this question especially for long term expats who have lived here for more than 10 years and who have kids who dont identify any other place as home other than Singapore.

For us expats, we already know which is home country and will eventually go back. But I wonder about our kids. They spent their entire childhood here and would have made friends with other transient expats but eventually when they grow up and settledown somewhere in the world, which place would they identify as home? Is Singapore a home for them?

Both of my kids were born and raised here and are now teenagers, one in local and the other in International School. They definitely see Singapore as home, but they do not fully appreciate the complications or implications of how immigration works here. It is weird to think that a place you were born and raised might eventually kick you out someday.

Having a US passport does give them some assurance that they will always have a place to go — and of course they have really fond memories, all of the times visiting their grandparents in the US. They have also traveled the world and know what it’s like to be in Zurich, New York, London, Chicago, Miami, Tokyo, Melbourne, Sydney, Toronto, Hong Kong, Taipei, Seoul, Jakarta and Bangkok. It is my hope that they feel like the world is their oyster. In the coming years they will both be going to university in the US, which should broaden their minds further and give them a different perspective.

But then Singapore will at the max just give them a short term visa to come and visit. But even if they come and visit, most of their friends would have moved on. So I just wonder are we really doing justice to them, by continuing to stay here for so long?

Every time my kids have started at a new school or started new classes, they have always seemed to make new friends. What I think is more important is having a loving close knit family at the core of their life. We will all move to the US together while they attend university — it not only smart financially (in-state tuition savings) but we’ll also be there for them if they need us. I think growing up here has been good for them… but then when I compare their cousins in the US who are about the same age, they are doing really good too!

[malcontent]

I think Singapore is a bad place for kids. It's too hot for much outside activity and the natural environment isn't great either. They end up spending too much time inside, which these days means glued to screens.

This leads to range of issues. For example, a study of 6-7 year old Chinese children in Singapore and Australia found they spend an average of 3 and 13 hours outside per week respectively, and the prevalence of myopia of Singaporean kids in the study is 29% vs 3% for the ones in Australia.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18413523/

My son and I always seem to find some outdoor activities. We used to play basketball, do hiking and then we got pretty heavy into cycling (especially during the pandemic) and more recently we have been swimming a lot. Fortunately my son is like me and likes the great outdoors. He would spend the whole day outside if possible.

My daughter is older and so she likes to be out with her friends. But since she is in local school she is studying 24x7, but she jumps at the rare opportunity to go out when she can.

[smoulder]

I have cousins who are American citizens. Their dad was posted to Papua New Guinea when they were kids, so they spent a considerable part of their childhood there. And then they moved back to the US which is where they spend their adult lives.

I think they feel connected to PNG but not to the extent that they would miss not immigrating there. Obviously though, there is a difference in their situations - PNG is not Singapore and they would have always had in their minds that it was just temporary and that they were heading back to the US.

[malcontent]

I would also say perspectives on this can vary widely depending on country of origin and passport(s) held. For expats (and their children) who already have the right of abode in a top tier, highly developed industrialized economy… they are less likely to be concerned.

But that said, sometimes those from large and fast growing developing economies have greater opportunities than what exists here — because there are fewer people with the means to capitalize on them. I have known several expats from such countries who really struggled with giving that up too.

On the one hand, they know their kids will probably be relegated to a cookie cutter existence here. But on the other hand, their kids just aren’t in-tune enough with the local culture back home and would struggle to manage the complex differences needed in order to realize their full success potential back there.

[jalanjalan]

What I think is more important is having a loving close knit family at the core of their life.

Disclaimer - we don't have kids, but I think you hit the nail on the head here. We're adaptable when young (teens-25ish) and with a supportive family should be fine wherever life leads us.
I adapted to Singapore easily in my early 20s largely because of supportive family and in-laws. You make friends fast enough at that age too.

[bro75]

This is also a question that we are wrestling with. My wife and I are PRs but our daughter is not due to multiple rejections. I am not sure where she will stay in the future if nothing changes. She grew up here and SG feels more like home to her. Due to the opportunity cost of leaving our employment here, we still do not want to go back permanently.

[malcontent]

This is also a question that we are wrestling with. My wife and I are PRs but our daughter is not due to multiple rejections. I am not sure where she will stay in the future if nothing changes. She grew up here and SG feels more like home to her. Due to the opportunity cost of leaving our employment here, we still do not want to go back permanently.

My wife is PR and I am EP. My daughter was initially rejected for PR but my wife marched down to the office and appealed the decision (she can be quite persuasive). It was approved shortly thereafter.

[Wd40]

This is also a question that we are wrestling with. My wife and I are PRs but our daughter is not due to multiple rejections. I am not sure where she will stay in the future if nothing changes. She grew up here and SG feels more like home to her. Due to the opportunity cost of leaving our employment here, we still do not want to go back permanently.

Does your daughter go to a local school?

[bro75]

This is also a question that we are wrestling with. My wife and I are PRs but our daughter is not due to multiple rejections. I am not sure where she will stay in the future if nothing changes. She grew up here and SG feels more like home to her. Due to the opportunity cost of leaving our employment here, we still do not want to go back permanently.

Does your daughter go to a local school?

Yes for about 3 years already.

[Wd40]

This is also a question that we are wrestling with. My wife and I are PRs but our daughter is not due to multiple rejections. I am not sure where she will stay in the future if nothing changes. She grew up here and SG feels more like home to her. Due to the opportunity cost of leaving our employment here, we still do not want to go back permanently.

Does your daughter go to a local school?

Yes for about 3 years already.

Then I think it should come through, it is just a matter of time. I just wished kids and spouses of PR and Singaporeans should kind of automatically get their PR approved and shouldnt be under any quota. I just dont understand the logic.

[malcontent]

This is also a question that we are wrestling with. My wife and I are PRs but our daughter is not due to multiple rejections. I am not sure where she will stay in the future if nothing changes. She grew up here and SG feels more like home to her. Due to the opportunity cost of leaving our employment here, we still do not want to go back permanently.

If your daughter is still very young, there is no reason to reject her. In my daughter’s case, when we appealed the rejection, the only thing they asked us to do is reconfirm our financial info and reconfirm or intentions about staying here. We then provided the documents and statements in writing. We also told them it was kind of urgent so we could get her registered for P1. I think it was approved within 2 months after that. Sometimes I think they just default to rejection unless they see your family as future citizen material. But if you appeal and show your seriousness, it might help. If your daughter has strong results in primary school — that can help too!