Singapore Expats

My citizenship journey

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 08 Oct 2022 12:25 pm

jalanjalan wrote:
Sat, 08 Oct 2022 11:27 am
I've sampled the SAF food packs years ago when hubby was doing reservist - they were quite tasty actually. Better than some airplane food I've had.
When my Son & Nephew were doing their NS, they often brought home MREs and I agree, they are not bad at all. Sure beat the hell out of the MRE's I had in the 60's during NAM in the US Military.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by MOCHS » Sat, 08 Oct 2022 2:57 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 08 Oct 2022 12:23 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sat, 08 Oct 2022 12:53 am
Thanks for sharing smoulder. I never would have guessed you would do all of those things.

It also makes me think, after living more than half of my life here, shouldn’t I be considering it at some point? Definitely not the right time now, but under the right circumstances in the future… who knows. Just have to take life step by step.
As you know, up to around 4 years ago, it has always been the furthest thing on my mind. Until a death in my family caused me to lose my retirement home. Now, with the only paid for property being here in Singapore, I've been giving it more and more thought the past couple of years. I hear you, Mal.
Out of curiosity, how often do Americans give up their citizenship to become Singaporeans? I seldom hear of such cases and only the founder of Botak Jones comes to mind.

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 08 Oct 2022 4:23 pm

Not very often, I'm afraid. The IRS makes it extremely difficult to renounce your US citizenship by making the tax clearance very onerous and difficult. You have to be a virtual pauper like me in order to do it reasonably easy.

Robert Chandran (Indian born US naturalized in 1981 and gave it up for SGC in 2007 - He is the founder of Chemoil which he also moved to Singapore from the US.

Eduardo Luiz Saverin Co-founder of FB relinquished his US citizenship but is only a PR in Sg as he still retain his Brazilian citizenship.

Financial guru Jim Rogers, while he has lived here since 2007, he is not a citizen but still retains his US citizenship. Not sure if he is a PR or EP holder here. I'm guessing a PR under the Global Investment Scheme.

Other that those, don't actually know of any, besides the above noted Bernie Utchenik, original founder of Botak Jones restaurants fame here.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by malcontent » Sat, 08 Oct 2022 8:04 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 08 Oct 2022 4:23 pm
Not very often, I'm afraid. The IRS makes it extremely difficult to renounce your US citizenship by making the tax clearance very onerous and difficult. You have to be a virtual pauper like me in order to do it reasonably easy.

Robert Chandran (Indian born US naturalized in 1981 and gave it up for SGC in 2007 - He is the founder of Chemoil which he also moved to Singapore from the US.

Eduardo Luiz Saverin Co-founder of FB relinquished his US citizenship but is only a PR in Sg as he still retain his Brazilian citizenship.

Financial guru Jim Rogers, while he has lived here since 2007, he is not a citizen but still retains his US citizenship. Not sure if he is a PR or EP holder here. I'm guessing a PR under the Global Investment Scheme.

Other that those, don't actually know of any, besides the above noted Bernie Utchenik, original founder of Botak Jones restaurants fame here.
I have personally known one American turned Singaporean, a partner at a major global consulting firm and (I have to assume) earning income of at least 7 figures annually. So by renouncing he would have saved 6 figures annually in US taxes. I didn’t even know he was a Singaporean until the tsunami in Phuket — he made headlines here as being one of the first “Singaporeans” to make it back here safely. He told me that he had quickly grabbed their passports and got everyone up to the top floor of the hotel as their room filled with water. He has a Filipina wife and 5 kids (if I counted right) so presumably the kids have US citizenship and he could always get a greencard and reapply for citizenship (through them) later on. Checking his LinkedIn profile just now, it looks like he did just that - now retired in Naples, FL.

Edwardo Saverin’s case is the reason the US tax laws around renouncing were made more onerous, so we have him to thanks for that! Edwardo stood to save millions upon millions in taxes by renouncing.
It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows - Epictetus

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 08 Oct 2022 9:18 pm

I think, at that time, his FB shares were worth something like $2 Billion.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by smoulder » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 1:52 pm

Update - 18th Oct 2022
Since my oath taking at the ICA Building is coming up on the 8th of November, I worked backwards to fix my Indian citizenship renunciation date. It takes 8 working days. So adding a bit of buffer and factoring in the holiday on the 24th, I decided that I should submit my application at BLS international on the 21st of October.

So they have appointments that can be booked online within 5 days from the planned visit. The window in which to book your appointment is between 10 and 10.30 am every day. So I managed to get an appointment for the 21st at their Tanjong Pagar office.

Second part is to submit an online application for renunciation on this site :
https://portal6.passportindia.gov.in/Online/welcomeLink

Take a print out of the application. Next step is to take the application print along with supporting documents and show up at BLS on the 21st. Fingers crossed that there are no surprises. BLS always seem to turn up something unexpected whenever I go there.

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by gold.spot » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 2:45 pm

Relax, smoulder. Just remember to get cash.

If you're really careful with the form filling, you will not face any issues with BLS. The form filling portion is where most people screw up.
That said, BLS has in house services for everything, at a cost. You fill in the form wrong? No problem, they'll refill the form for you at a charge. No photo to specification? They'll take one for you for $5. Forgot to print a document? They'll print for you if you email them on the spot.

The things that you cannot forget are your original documents - passport, nric.

I just went back to BLS yesterday for an oci application. Appointment at 12.30pm. Seen at 1.45pm. The crowd is a bit much.

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by smoulder » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 3:03 pm

gold.spot wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 2:45 pm
Relax, smoulder. Just remember to get cash.

If you're really careful with the form filling, you will not face any issues with BLS. The form filling portion is where most people screw up.
That said, BLS has in house services for everything, at a cost. You fill in the form wrong? No problem, they'll refill the form for you at a charge. No photo to specification? They'll take one for you for $5. Forgot to print a document? They'll print for you if you email them on the spot.

The things that you cannot forget are your original documents - passport, nric.

I just went back to BLS yesterday for an oci application. Appointment at 12.30pm. Seen at 1.45pm. The crowd is a bit much.
Thanks - it is little surprises that worry me. For instance, the site says that I need to bring along my "foreign" (Singaporean in this case) passport - however, I've not received it yet. Then there's the thing about bringing along the "original" ICA letter and a copy. I cannot for the life of me remember whether I even received a paper letter from the ICA. So I just took a color print out of the pdf and another black and white print. The paper in my printer is different from the one that the ICA uses and it is obvious to someone who is sharp enough :D I'm hoping that they are not going to send me back for that! 😁

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by smoulder » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 3:06 pm

Oh and thanks for the heads up about the crowd. My appointment is at noon so I'll go there a bit earlier. I want to get the office work out of the way and have a peaceful lunch with my wife since I am on leave.

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by gold.spot » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 4:25 pm

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 3:03 pm

Thanks - it is little surprises that worry me. For instance, the site says that I need to bring along my "foreign" (Singaporean in this case) passport - however, I've not received it yet. Then there's the thing about bringing along the "original" ICA letter and a copy. I cannot for the life of me remember whether I even received a paper letter from the ICA. So I just took a color print out of the pdf and another black and white print. The paper in my printer is different from the one that the ICA uses and it is obvious to someone who is sharp enough :D I'm hoping that they are not going to send me back for that! 😁
Yeah that's how they write the requirements. Indian bureaucraZy has been outsourced to outsourced provider as well.

This foreign passport requirement is for minors. (Though India doesn't actually allow even minors to have 2 citizenships, but many do)

ICA letter can be a print out it's fine.

The only surprising thing for me was that all renunciation application documents including copies of supporting documents are all returned to you with the cancelled passport. (Or did they make a mistake with mine? :D)

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by jalanjalan » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 4:55 pm

The only thing that caught me off guard with my renunciation paperwork was the Cdn High Comm wanted a letter (any official type letter) with my address, showing I am currently actually living in Singapore. Luckily I had just received something in the post from NTUC the day before and had it with me.

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by smoulder » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 8:05 pm

jalanjalan wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 4:55 pm
The only thing that caught me off guard with my renunciation paperwork was the Cdn High Comm wanted a letter (any official type letter) with my address, showing I am currently actually living in Singapore. Luckily I had just received something in the post from NTUC the day before and had it with me.
Wouldn't something like a utility bill in pdf format suffice?

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by smoulder » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 8:08 pm

gold.spot wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 4:25 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 3:03 pm

Thanks - it is little surprises that worry me. For instance, the site says that I need to bring along my "foreign" (Singaporean in this case) passport - however, I've not received it yet. Then there's the thing about bringing along the "original" ICA letter and a copy. I cannot for the life of me remember whether I even received a paper letter from the ICA. So I just took a color print out of the pdf and another black and white print. The paper in my printer is different from the one that the ICA uses and it is obvious to someone who is sharp enough :D I'm hoping that they are not going to send me back for that! 😁
Yeah that's how they write the requirements. Indian bureaucraZy has been outsourced to outsourced provider as well.

This foreign passport requirement is for minors. (Though India doesn't actually allow even minors to have 2 citizenships, but many do)

ICA letter can be a print out it's fine.

The only surprising thing for me was that all renunciation application documents including copies of supporting documents are all returned to you with the cancelled passport. (Or did they make a mistake with mine? :D)
Actually, the website does state that they will return the originals. I presume that the originals in question refers purely to the passport and they are not going to take originals of anything else. It's quite normal to return canceled passports - my wife has her old Malaysian passports.

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by gold.spot » Tue, 18 Oct 2022 8:29 pm

Yes they return your originals right away.

But I meant 5 days later after your application is processed at the high comm, in addition to the cancelled passport, they return your printed and signed passport cancellation form, your photocopied nric, your printed ica ipa... Strange, but whatever...

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Re: My citizenship journey

Post by jalanjalan » Wed, 19 Oct 2022 2:29 pm

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 8:05 pm
jalanjalan wrote:
Tue, 18 Oct 2022 4:55 pm
The only thing that caught me off guard with my renunciation paperwork was the Cdn High Comm wanted a letter (any official type letter) with my address, showing I am currently actually living in Singapore. Luckily I had just received something in the post from NTUC the day before and had it with me.
Wouldn't something like a utility bill in pdf format suffice?
Probably, though in my case it wouldn't help as the bill is under my spouse's name.

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