Thoughts on 377a repeal

[mozarella99]

Saw this thread and was hoping to read a few progressive thoughts and comments. Alas - I was disappointed. Also the responses help color the mindset of the some senior members on this forum - which is that they are indeed err...quite senior.

The gahmen clearly is serving up what it's target audience (the aged/elderly/conservative groups and Singaporeans it has groomed over the years)wants. Ie: enshrining this heteronormative BS into the constitution, while trying to sound like they are doing the LGBTQ+ community a massive favour.

In my opinion this really was an excellent opportunity for the PAP to begin to appeal to the next gen. A voter base which expects the government to repeal this colonial BS substantively. Not by mere lip service. 377A has not been actively been enforced in any case. So was this whole thing was just a charade?

Sadly this move further legitimizes the fact that gay Singaporeans (and others living here) will forever remain second class citizens. Especially when it comes to their key civil rights (marriage, adoption, housing etc). All of it now kept securely out of their reach.

[bro75]

The repeal of 377a is welcome. For the future, I personally would not oppose marriage or a civil union for LGBTQ couples. Live and let live as long as you do not hurt other people. But I am not a local so my opinions would not matter much here.

I am open to legalizing doctor prescribed marijuana and do not support legalizing recreational marijuana. I do not see the net positive in allowing recreational marijuana.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Saw this thread and was hoping to read a few progressive thoughts and comments. Alas - I was disappointed. Also the responses help color the mindset of the some senior members on this forum - which is that they are indeed err...quite senior.

And comments like this is why sympathizers like you can't get anywhere. You lose your street cred before you even start by trying to pigeonhole those you are trying to have a discussion with.

[mozarella99]

Sure SMS . For a bunch of folks who discuss every topic under the sun (race, ethnicity, rating families and folks). You seem surprisingly touchy about folks being pigeonholed. Especially on a topic where straight men/women sit and pass judgement on the lives of others.

There is always room for armchair discussions. However, as things stand (especially in light of the current announcements that have been made). What did you expect? To sit down once more and have a debate in a manner where LGBTQ+ allies keep doing more to varnish the egos of the openly biased? To continue cushioning even the most basic messaging. All while rights are being denied? While actual lives are being affected and folks are being marginalized.

Perhaps my comments were a tad too harsh. But we live in such times. Where folks with a certain mindset have lived their entire lives on their terms. Sure homophobes come in all ages and sizes. But they are united in unanimously choosing to actively thwart and deny others of basic rights.

So yeah, we "sympathizers" are running a bit low on patience at this point. It is precisely that frustration that may come off sounding rude. I'm also sure the lack of niceties is the least of the communities (LGBTQ+) problems right now.

So be prepared to face a bit of a shelling as folks like myself (vocally in public or on online forums such as this) see and react to this move from the government. It's not going to come gift wrapped with a thank you note.

[malcontent]

Personally I have nothing against pot, I do have a problem with other drugs but marijuana in general seems to do a lot more good than it does harm. For singapore though, I just believe that if we’ve gone so long drug-free, why allow it?

An argument could be made that potheads are no worse than drunkards and alcoholics. Similar to alcohol, pot is not very addictive for most people. However, like alcohol, it affects different people different ways. And believe me, I’ve seen that first-hand.

Still, it’s not something I’d want my kids exposed to if it can be avoided. I have even asked them, let’s say you’re at a party and people start passing around a joint… what would you do when it gets passed to you?

And what did they say? I do have this worry, since my daughter is going off to college in the US next year. It would be naive of me to think that she won’t, at some point, come across pot. Personally, I know her well enough to know that the curiosity will be too much for her to not at least try it once. I do hope and believe that she has the self-control not to let it become a problem though.

Haha, I was wondering if anyone would be curious about that. My kids first thought was just say no or no thanks. But they have not been in this situation before, so I explained the practical reality… do you really expect the person to reach across you and hand it to the next person? That just doesn’t happen when a joint is being passed around — anyone who doesn’t want to take a toke will say nothing… they just take it and pass it to the next person. That’s what happens in the real world. Depending on the size of the group, it’s common for one or two to pass. Nobody judges anyone for that, it leaves more for the rest.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Mal, that happened to me a lot. I've never taken a toke in all my 75 years, either in the NAM or Woodstock the year after I returned. But I've always been an outlier, nevermind However that never prevented me from either getting mentally high or mellowing out on the atmosphere. Probably the most freaky instance with in the club cellar of my 2nd wife's parents house before we got married. Her whole family were in the room on couches chairs (Father, Mother older brother (also ex-Nam vet as well) and my intended. The brother brings out the fixin's and all partook but as you have noted, I just passed it on as was customary. My intended already knew I didn't and also I didn't mind. But what was so mind blowing were her parents as her father was a GS18 with NSA at Ft. Meade, MD. They and I lived in Laurel, MD about 10 miles from Ft. Meade (Home of NSA in the US). The guy was a Superspook with NSA. My intended graduated from an Int'l school in North UK (they were stationed there for 8 years at Menwith Hill) an she had never smoked pot there so when she came back to the US, she could do a whole doobie without any effect hardly at all. Like she told me later, in the UK back then grass was harder to come by so everybody did hash so it was kinda like a whiskey drinker having to drink wine.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Sure SMS . For a bunch of folks who discuss every topic under the sun (race, ethnicity, rating families and folks). You seem surprisingly touchy about folks being pigeonholed. Especially on a topic where straight men/women sit and pass judgement on the lives of others.

There is always room for armchair discussions. However, as things stand (especially in light of the current announcements that have been made). What did you expect? To sit down once more and have a debate in a manner where LGBTQ+ allies keep doing more to varnish the egos of the openly biased? To continue cushioning even the most basic messaging. All while rights are being denied? While actual lives are being affected and folks are being marginalized.

Perhaps my comments were a tad too harsh. But we live in such times. Where folks with a certain mindset have lived their entire lives on their terms. Sure homophobes come in all ages and sizes. But they are united in unanimously choosing to actively thwart and deny others of basic rights.

So yeah, we "sympathizers" are running a bit low on patience at this point. It is precisely that frustration that may come off sounding rude. I'm also sure the lack of niceties is the least of the communities (LGBTQ+) problems right now.

So be prepared to face a bit of a shelling as folks like myself (vocally in public or on online forums such as this) see and react to this move from the government. It's not going to come gift wrapped with a thank you note.

Perhaps is somewhat of an understatement. You want to come out with guns blazing looking for a fight the best way of finding it on a user friendly board is by insulting those you want to have a dialog with. Be careful you might be in a minefield where those seniors hold all the tripwires and triggers.

[Lisafuller]

In my opinion this really was an excellent opportunity for the PAP to begin to appeal to the next gen. A voter base which expects the government to repeal this colonial BS substantively. Not by mere lip service. 377A has not been actively been enforced in any case. So was this whole thing was just a charade?

Sadly this move further legitimizes the fact that gay Singaporeans (and others living here) will forever remain second class citizens. Especially when it comes to their key civil rights (marriage, adoption, housing etc). All of it now kept securely out of their reach.

Fully agree - seems like this move was not nearly as sincere as we had first thought.

[Lisafuller]

The repeal of 377a is welcome. For the future, I personally would not oppose marriage or a civil union for LGBTQ couples. Live and let live as long as you do not hurt other people. But I am not a local so my opinions would not matter much here.

I am open to legalizing doctor prescribed marijuana and do not support legalizing recreational marijuana. I do not see the net positive in allowing recreational marijuana.

Right, with regards to pot usage, I agree. I’m all for pot if it’s to be used for medicinal purposes - in the form of cbd infused creams and balms. Recreational weed, on the other hand, I cannot see the benefit of.

[tiktok]

...user friendly board...

Hilarious!

If anyone dares post a point of view that conflicts with the old regulars here, all bets on a constructive or mature discussion are off.

I don't think mozarella99's comments were designed to be offensive to anyone in particular. But he's obviously very saddened by some of the comments on this thread. Sounds like a smart and sensitive chap who probably won't be sticking around.

Now let me disappear before the inevitable geriatric rage rains down.

[tiktok]

Sorry double post.

[Lisafuller]

Sure SMS . For a bunch of folks who discuss every topic under the sun (race, ethnicity, rating families and folks). You seem surprisingly touchy about folks being pigeonholed. Especially on a topic where straight men/women sit and pass judgement on the lives of others.

There is always room for armchair discussions. However, as things stand (especially in light of the current announcements that have been made). What did you expect? To sit down once more and have a debate in a manner where LGBTQ+ allies keep doing more to varnish the egos of the openly biased? To continue cushioning even the most basic messaging. All while rights are being denied? While actual lives are being affected and folks are being marginalized.

Perhaps my comments were a tad too harsh. But we live in such times. Where folks with a certain mindset have lived their entire lives on their terms. Sure homophobes come in all ages and sizes. But they are united in unanimously choosing to actively thwart and deny others of basic rights.

So yeah, we "sympathizers" are running a bit low on patience at this point. It is precisely that frustration that may come off sounding rude. I'm also sure the lack of niceties is the least of the communities (LGBTQ+) problems right now.

So be prepared to face a bit of a shelling as folks like myself (vocally in public or on online forums such as this) see and react to this move from the government. It's not going to come gift wrapped with a thank you note.

Wouldn’t go so far as to call anyone here a homophobe, believe it’s just differing views that can be explained by generational gaps/differences in upbringing.

[Lisafuller]

An argument could be made that potheads are no worse than drunkards and alcoholics. Similar to alcohol, pot is not very addictive for most people. However, like alcohol, it affects different people different ways. And believe me, I’ve seen that first-hand.

Still, it’s not something I’d want my kids exposed to if it can be avoided. I have even asked them, let’s say you’re at a party and people start passing around a joint… what would you do when it gets passed to you?

And what did they say? I do have this worry, since my daughter is going off to college in the US next year. It would be naive of me to think that she won’t, at some point, come across pot. Personally, I know her well enough to know that the curiosity will be too much for her to not at least try it once. I do hope and believe that she has the self-control not to let it become a problem though.

Haha, I was wondering if anyone would be curious about that. My kids first thought was just say no or no thanks. But they have not been in this situation before, so I explained the practical reality… do you really expect the person to reach across you and hand it to the next person? That just doesn’t happen when a joint is being passed around — anyone who doesn’t want to take a toke will say nothing… they just take it and pass it to the next person. That’s what happens in the real world. Depending on the size of the group, it’s common for one or two to pass. Nobody judges anyone for that, it leaves more for the rest.

Seems like they’re on similar pages. As parents it’s not realistic to expect to be there to guide our children's every move - what’s most important is that we raise them to have good judgement, or at least try to!

[Lisafuller]

Mal, that happened to me a lot. I've never taken a toke in all my 75 years, either in the NAM or Woodstock the year after I returned. But I've always been an outlier, nevermind However that never prevented me from either getting mentally high or mellowing out on the atmosphere. Probably the most freaky instance with in the club cellar of my 2nd wife's parents house before we got married. Her whole family were in the room on couches chairs (Father, Mother older brother (also ex-Nam vet as well) and my intended. The brother brings out the fixin's and all partook but as you have noted, I just passed it on as was customary. My intended already knew I didn't and also I didn't mind. But what was so mind blowing were her parents as her father was a GS18 with NSA at Ft. Meade, MD. They and I lived in Laurel, MD about 10 miles from Ft. Meade (Home of NSA in the US). The guy was a Superspook with NSA. My intended graduated from an Int'l school in North UK (they were stationed there for 8 years at Menwith Hill) an she had never smoked pot there so when she came back to the US, she could do a whole doobie without any effect hardly at all. Like she told me later, in the UK back then grass was harder to come by so everybody did hash so it was kinda like a whiskey drinker having to drink wine.

Any reason for your abstinence? Or just a personal choice?

[Lisafuller]

Sure SMS . For a bunch of folks who discuss every topic under the sun (race, ethnicity, rating families and folks). You seem surprisingly touchy about folks being pigeonholed. Especially on a topic where straight men/women sit and pass judgement on the lives of others.

There is always room for armchair discussions. However, as things stand (especially in light of the current announcements that have been made). What did you expect? To sit down once more and have a debate in a manner where LGBTQ+ allies keep doing more to varnish the egos of the openly biased? To continue cushioning even the most basic messaging. All while rights are being denied? While actual lives are being affected and folks are being marginalized.

Perhaps my comments were a tad too harsh. But we live in such times. Where folks with a certain mindset have lived their entire lives on their terms. Sure homophobes come in all ages and sizes. But they are united in unanimously choosing to actively thwart and deny others of basic rights.

So yeah, we "sympathizers" are running a bit low on patience at this point. It is precisely that frustration that may come off sounding rude. I'm also sure the lack of niceties is the least of the communities (LGBTQ+) problems right now.

So be prepared to face a bit of a shelling as folks like myself (vocally in public or on online forums such as this) see and react to this move from the government. It's not going to come gift wrapped with a thank you note.

Perhaps is somewhat of an understatement. You want to come out with guns blazing looking for a fight the best way of finding it on a user friendly board is by insulting those you want to have a dialog with. Be careful you might be in a minefield where those seniors hold all the tripwires and triggers.

Don’t think his intention was to offend, probably just wanted to offer a differing point of view. What’s most important here is not agreeing, but rather openness.