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Thoughts on 377a repeal

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Lisafuller
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Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 24 Aug 2022 8:34 pm

As most of us know by now, 377 a was repealed during this year’s NDR. I expected the members of the LGBTQ community to be very pleased about this, and they do seem to be for the most part, however what’s interesting is that some are now saying that the move to repeal was not a progressive one but rather a move made with the aim of affirming Singapore’s heterocentric norms by solidifying the institution of marriage. Personally I hadn’t considered that, but now I’m thinking that this is either a really contradictory move in the end of the government - on one hand accepting gay Singaporeans with the repeal yet continuing to deprive them of civil rights, or a move of absolute genius, in the sense that they have managed to appease the members of the LGBTQ community, while keeping the older generation satisfied. What do you all think?

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 25 Aug 2022 1:12 am

That is exactly what they were trying to do and in the process, trying to find a way to avoid the activists next target being the government policies set up originally intended for traditional marriages (that could produce families & future generations). So in order to do that, they are also rewriting the Constitution to address that situation so it cannot be tested in a court. Smart move on their part.
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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by malcontent » Thu, 25 Aug 2022 7:17 pm

I am sure my view is not popular, but I have a right to my view as much as anyone else. I am also sure I’m not alone in my view, but many who share my view prefer to stay silent.

Same sex partners who “marry” have entered into a false marriage, despite legal recognition, it is not a real marriage.

I believe one should love the sinner, but hate the sin. I have asked many who say they are Christians whether they know what the Bible says on this matter; I have yet to find a single one that does. I provide the exact Bible verse below.

Notice how the action and not the person is condemned. It’s not who you are, but what you do — an important distinction, in-line w/377a.

LEVITICUS 20:13
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 25 Aug 2022 7:26 pm

Mal, I tend to agree, but sadly I cannot vouch as to what is the view of the asian religions which are the predominant religion here, not christianity, considering the asian usage of consorts and eunuchs' over the centuries.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by malcontent » Thu, 25 Aug 2022 8:24 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 25 Aug 2022 7:26 pm
Mal, I tend to agree, but sadly I cannot vouch as to what is the view of the asian religions which are the predominant religion here, not christianity, considering the asian usage of consorts and eunuchs' over the centuries.
They want me to condone homosexuality. But I am a Buddhist and, for a Buddhist, a relationship between two men is wrong. Some sexual conduct in marriage is also wrong.
- Dalai Lama
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 25 Aug 2022 10:37 pm

There's also some debate that the original word used in Lev 20:13 meant a pederast (a man who preys on young men). I personally expect we will see gay marriage legalized here in time for LHY to become the 5G prime minister with his husband as spouse and first lady once Lawrence Woo has had his turn.

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 5:52 am

Good move, law was deprecated, redundant not enforced in most cases anyway
However, Prevents gay marriages though, which is disappointing cuz it seems to encourage gay sex but not gay relationships, and ideally one would want to see those gay couples to be faithful to one another but it doesn’t seem to be encouraging of that.
Also timing for such a repeal couldn’t have come at a better time when monkeypox cases are increasing lol

The christian rednecks are the ones most perturbed by all this but cant do shit but squirm and scream internally
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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by BBCDoc » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 6:50 am

My thoughts are that it was retained more as a political weapon to be used against undesirably popular figures when needed…nowadays a lot less public outrage around MSM so maybe it has become redundant…


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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 8:34 am

BBCDoc - that was certainly how it was actually used.... and there probably were some bright sparks who realized that there are some significant individuals in the PAP that an OPPO might decide to target with it should they come into power. One in particular wears a pink shirt every NDP.
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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by malcontent » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 9:01 am

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Fri, 26 Aug 2022 5:52 am
Good move, law was deprecated, redundant not enforced in most cases anyway
However, Prevents gay marriages though, which is disappointing cuz it seems to encourage gay sex but not gay relationships, and ideally one would want to see those gay couples to be faithful to one another but it doesn’t seem to be encouraging of that.
Also timing for such a repeal couldn’t have come at a better time when monkeypox cases are increasing lol

The christian rednecks are the ones most perturbed by all this but cant do shit but squirm and scream internally
I lean Libertarian politically, so while my personal views are my own, I don’t think the state should be meddling in this whatsoever - no more than they should be meddling in things like adultery or fornication. However, in that same vein, I don’t think the state should be overtly endorsing or legally recognizing any such things either. Even legally recognizing marriage between a man and woman is technically not necessary.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by Addadude » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 10:01 am

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 25 Aug 2022 7:17 pm
I am sure my view is not popular, but I have a right to my view as much as anyone else. I am also sure I’m not alone in my view, but many who share my view prefer to stay silent.

Same sex partners who “marry” have entered into a false marriage, despite legal recognition, it is not a real marriage.

I believe one should love the sinner, but hate the sin. I have asked many who say they are Christians whether they know what the Bible says on this matter; I have yet to find a single one that does. I provide the exact Bible verse below.

Notice how the action and not the person is condemned. It’s not who you are, but what you do — an important distinction, in-line w/377a.

LEVITICUS 20:13
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
There are other interesting quotes from Leviticus 20 too:

“…If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head…

“If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death…

“If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people…"


I for one am rather glad that most modern societies have moved beyond this backward nonsense.
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malcontent
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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by malcontent » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 11:41 am

Addadude wrote:
Fri, 26 Aug 2022 10:01 am
malcontent wrote:
Thu, 25 Aug 2022 7:17 pm
I am sure my view is not popular, but I have a right to my view as much as anyone else. I am also sure I’m not alone in my view, but many who share my view prefer to stay silent.

Same sex partners who “marry” have entered into a false marriage, despite legal recognition, it is not a real marriage.

I believe one should love the sinner, but hate the sin. I have asked many who say they are Christians whether they know what the Bible says on this matter; I have yet to find a single one that does. I provide the exact Bible verse below.

Notice how the action and not the person is condemned. It’s not who you are, but what you do — an important distinction, in-line w/377a.

LEVITICUS 20:13
If a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.
There are other interesting quotes from Leviticus 20 too:

“…If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head…

“If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death…

“If a man lies with a woman during her monthly period and has sexual relations with her, he has exposed the source of her flow, and she has also uncovered it. Both of them must be cut off from their people…"


I for one am rather glad that most modern societies have moved beyond this backward nonsense.
Where do you stand on floggings and hangings?
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by smoulder » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:25 pm

Isn't that whataboutery?

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by malcontent » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 4:23 pm

smoulder wrote:
Fri, 26 Aug 2022 12:25 pm
Isn't that whataboutery?
I was referring to the corporal and capital punishments being meted out here for certain offenses. Some consider it backward.

But to the point - I think Leviticus was spelling out the laws of that era. The New Testament transformed much of that, along the lines of… let he who has no sin cast the first stone. It’s not that wrongs were less wrong, but that mercy should be shown.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Thoughts on 377a repeal

Post by rajagainstthemachine » Fri, 26 Aug 2022 5:48 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 25 Aug 2022 8:24 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 25 Aug 2022 7:26 pm
Mal, I tend to agree, but sadly I cannot vouch as to what is the view of the asian religions which are the predominant religion here, not christianity, considering the asian usage of consorts and eunuchs' over the centuries.
They want me to condone homosexuality. But I am a Buddhist and, for a Buddhist, a relationship between two men is wrong. Some sexual conduct in marriage is also wrong.
- Dalai Lama
didn't buddha also advocate the middle path?
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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