PR/SC Chances 2022

[vikram_khanna]

Hello people of SG,

I am an Indian national on EP and was wondering what my chances are for getting a PR and then SC.
Personally, I have enjoyed my time in SG, and I think it is time to know if SG people want me or not.
SG is wonderful place ... or rather wonderful people. Man, LKY is a god, I want to be like him.

Here are the details:-

Nationality: Indian
Income: 19.5k SGD per month
Age: 25
Experience: 2 years on 1st EP, 0.5 years on 2nd EP
Time in SG: 2.5 years
Profession: Software Engineer/Research & Dev with expertise in a niche field
Education: Top Indian Engineering Institute

I know SG is mostly Chinese nation (and CMIO quotas are designed to keep it that way) but still wondering if the situation is that bad that Indians won't get it (even at my income level).

I have work opportunities in India/Europe/US but would prefer SG if SG can accept me as a PR/SC.

Also, once you PR for 2-3 years, can SC be rejected? Do Indians quota exist for PR->SC as well?

Thanks,
Vikram

[gold.spot]

Approximately 30k PR given in a year. Approximately 20k SC given in a year.

If you do the simple math, you can see that PR numbers grow faster than citizenship registrations. If you are PR, your SC application can be rejected. And yes, both PR and SC are given out with a view of balancing the race percentages.

For you, it seems like you're a 'flight risk' as the other forum members have described in other threads. You have mentioned yourself that you have opportunities elsewhere. PR is given to those who want to sink roots in Singapore. Anecdotally, there have been many Indians who obtain PR who have a son, and give up their PR so that they don't have to serve NS.

Take a look at these numbers issued by Indian ministry - https://i.redd.it/6uclh5zqvic91.jpg

7046 citizens converted to Singaporeans in the last three years. Approximately 2350 Indian citizens converted to SC per year in the last 3 years.

Now take a look at https://www.population.gov.sg/media-cen ... n-in-brief

21k SC registrations done in 2020. You can infer that a little over 10% of SC registrations are Indian Passport holders.

[NYY1]

Approximately 30k PR given in a year. Approximately 20k SC given in a year.

If you do the simple math, you can see that PR numbers grow faster than citizenship registrations. If you are PR, your SC application can be rejected. And yes, both PR and SC are given out with a view of balancing the race percentages.
.....

I think the first part in italics is correct, and it is definitely true that SC application can be rejected (i.e. PR does not guarantee SC x years down the road).

However, I am not so sure the PR numbers grow faster than citizenship registrations. At least for the last five years, total PR population was ~0.52-0.53 million before the drop associated with COVID. If you add 30k and convert 20k, it implies 10k were given up (or REP not renewed) to keep the total number at 0.52-0.53 million? 10k on 500k is about 2%, which could be for any number of reasons.

Point being, even for the smaller buckets I'm not sure it is like the odds are getting worse every year because there are more PRs issued than SCs (for any particular group). Of course, if the PR balance is in fact changing, then that would be a different story.

[MOCHS]

Personally, I have enjoyed my time in SG, and I think it is time to know if SG people want me or not.

You got this all wrong with this mentality. ICA already knows what they are looking for and they want people who are willing to sink roots here permanently, hence the name permanent residence. You are the one who has to ensure you can fulfil the PR criteria, not the other way round where you tell ICA to take it or leave it.

Both PR & SC have CMIO quota. Yes, one can have PR and then rejected for SC.

There are countless Indian PR applicants with high salaries. The negative is that you’re single and ICA generally leans towards those who are married as they have the potential to produce offspring that boost the population. Your chances are low, I’m afraid.

If you can afford the application fee and don’t mind rejection, you can apply. Since you mentioned you have other opportunities abroad, that can be your plan B which is to migrate to other countries.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The 30K new PR vrs 20K new SGC is like that for a very valid reason. Only a portion of that is due to rejections by ICA for PR applicants to SGC. A very large number of PR EVERY YEAR give up their PR. Has been going on for donkey's years. So many, and I'm sure you can figure it out, apply for PR for the benefits only, but the ability to buy an HDB or any other subsidies they can get. The ability to get reduced medical costs. The ability to change jobs a random without worrying about REP, etc. And some decided they just don't like SG all that much. Or, they still find better, more attractive offers elsewhere. They lose on average, approximately 1 out of three PRs annually. So they grant a full third more that what is required for SGC knowing the PR attrition rates, historically speaking.

[NYY1]

It would be interesting to know in the last decade plus how many of the 300k+ PRs have converted, how many have stayed as PR, and how many have left/given back (timeframe where total PR base has stayed around 0.5 MM). Obviously not all would be ideal SC candidates yet (eligible to apply and stayed as PR a good amount of time).

Losing 10k per year is not a lot compared to the total base of 500k. Could be made up of those that are unfortunately no longer with us, moved back home to retire (REP not renewed), or moved on to so called greener pastures (i.e. still young working age).

I would also think there could be a fair number that received PR before the tightening a decade plus ago that are not as strong candidates to ultimately convert. They may still be in prime working years and retaining this status until they move on (unless stay here indefinitely due to family like some).

[kjose88]

The 30K new PR vrs 20K new SGC is like that for a very valid reason. Only a portion of that is due to rejections by ICA for PR applicants to SGC. A very large number of PR EVERY YEAR give up their PR. Has been going on for donkey's years. So many, and I'm sure you can figure it out, apply for PR for the benefits only, but the ability to buy an HDB or any other subsidies they can get. The ability to get reduced medical costs. The ability to change jobs a random without worrying about REP, etc. And some decided they just don't like SG all that much. Or, they still find better, more attractive offers elsewhere. They lose on average, approximately 1 out of three PRs annually. So they grant a full third more that what is required for SGC knowing the PR attrition rates, historically speaking.

Considering they lose 1 out 3 PRs annually on an average, PR to citizenship grant ratio is 3:2 and number of total PRs remain constant - every PR is going to get guaranteed citizenship if they do what they are supposed to do - sink roots deeper and deeper.

[vikram_khanna]

Hey guys, thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. You guys are very helpful.

Can someone explain about 'flight risk'? I don't understand what ICA wants in immigrants.

I don't really come from a good background ( not rich at all, just worked hard) so I personally just want to immigrate and settle down with my retired parents in a good place. SG is definitely the topmost choice for a variety of reasons. ( I would really want you to trust me when I say SG is my first choice ).

Am I not the ideal immigrant family? Do they want rich 1st world folks who can invest and spend a lot of money in SG?

I can't see myself marrying/having kids for 10 years, how can I show my family wants to sink roots?

The only reason I mentioned that I had other opportunities was that my parents are not immortal, and I would love to give them a better future with some certainty.
Personally, I wouldn't mind waiting 15-20 years for PR.

Thanks,
Vikram

PS:
When you say 'flight risk', do you guys mean I become a Singapore citizen and perhaps go outside SG for work? I have no plans to do that but even if so, what's the problem here? Are you saying I am not an ideal Indian citizen for working here in SG and not paying taxes to Indian government?

[MOCHS]

Flight risk means individuals with high pay have the tendency to be lured to positions overseas with even higher pay. They are unlikely to stay since they can afford to move wherever they want.

I don't understand what ICA wants in immigrants.

ICA does not publish what they are looking for so people don’t try to game the system. If you read the forum though, you can decipher what they want: Married, child-bearing age, integrated into Singapore, able to support themselves financially, etc. Of course, it’s not 100% guaranteed since they look at other stuff we don’t know about.

[mystic_river]

ICA does not publish what they are looking for so people don’t try to game the system. If you read the forum though, you can decipher what they want: Married, child-bearing age, integrated into Singapore, able to support themselves financially, etc. Of course, it’s not 100% guaranteed since they look at other stuff we don’t know about.

Technically, they do publish what they want. Just that we have no idea how much weightage they give to each of these factors.

From ICA’s website:

ICA considers factors such as the individual's family ties to Singaporeans, economic contributions, qualifications, age, family profile and length of residency, to assess the applicant's ability to contribute to Singapore and integrate into our society, as well as his or her commitment to sinking roots in Singapore.

[kjose88]

Am I not the ideal immigrant family? Do they want rich 1st world folks who can invest and spend a lot of money in SG?

It's quite obvious that you're not ideal race for PR. But you can do your best to be an ideal immigrant family and marriage/children are necessary ingredients for that. Also, if you think PR is only granted to rich folks, you should browse through this forum and you'll find PR being given to folks who are not even earning 1/5th of what your earn.

[smoulder]

Am I not the ideal immigrant family? Do they want rich 1st world folks who can invest and spend a lot of money in SG?

It's quite obvious that you're not ideal race for PR. But you can do your best to be an ideal immigrant family and marriage/children are necessary ingredients for that. Also, if you think PR is only granted to rich folks, you should browse through this forum and you'll find PR being given to folks who are not even earning 1/5th of what your earn.

Conversely, there are folks who earn double or triple of what he earns and are still unable to "crack the code"!

[smoulder]

My personal view is that there are better places to immigrate to if you are Indian.

And by better, I don't mean that Singapore is a bad place. Leaving aside the comparisons with other countries in terms of cost of living, culture etc where there will be pros and cons and some of the points may be subjective. That's a topic for another day. By better or not so much, I'm referring to the number of hurdles you would face to immigrate. There is a very small quota for Indians and it is pretty competitive - both in terms of number of applications as well as the qualifications of the applicants. There is a lot of anecdotal evidence to suggest that the few who are successful are largely those who have integrated well which for the most part is indicated by who they have married - their own countrymen vs Singaporeans. On this point, don't think about getting into a sham marriage just for PR - the ICA will quite likely be able to smell the BS. The other point is about bringing your parents here (should you be able to become a PR or citizen) - I'm not sure if that's really something that people do. I'm not quite sure why not, but the fact that it isn't very common, means that there are probably good reasons to not do that.

[kjose88]

The other point is about bringing your parents here (should you be able to become a PR or citizen) - I'm not sure if that's really something that people do. I'm not quite sure why not, but the fact that it isn't very common, means that there are probably good reasons to not do that.

Regarding bringing in parents, I think SG is one of the best choice in terms of how easy it is to bring parents along with you for long term if you are PR/Citizen. I am comparing with countries like UK, USA and Australia where you can bring parents max for 6 months in a year on tourist visa. Canada is an exception where you can get supervisa or even PR for your parents through a relatively less cumbersome process. As to why people don't bring old age parents as much in SG, I think it might be due to involved medical costs (if required) considering no subsidies for LTVP.

[smoulder]

The other point is about bringing your parents here (should you be able to become a PR or citizen) - I'm not sure if that's really something that people do. I'm not quite sure why not, but the fact that it isn't very common, means that there are probably good reasons to not do that.

Regarding bringing in parents, I think SG is one of the best choice in terms of how easy it is to bring parents along with you for long term if you are PR/Citizen. I am comparing with countries like UK, USA and Australia where you can bring parents max for 6 months in a year on tourist visa. Canada is an exception where you can get supervisa or even PR for your parents through a relatively less cumbersome process. As to why people don't bring old age parents as much in SG, I think it might be due to involved medical costs (if required) considering no subsidies for LTVP.

Yup, I am fully aware of the ease in bringing in parents. I'm a PR and my wife is a citizen. But like you said, the deterrents could be medical costs. I know that it is a factor when we considered my mother in law staying here long term. Obviously it will be troublesome at best to apply for a new medical insurance policy and it would have too many restrictions.