Appealing against traffic offense in Singapore

[Lisafuller]

My daughter got her drivers license in early May and has been driving nearly every day since. Frankly, I believe she drives pretty well, so well that a normal driver on the road would not be able to tell if she was the P plate driver or not.

About two weeks ago she was coming home from supper with friends at around four in the morning when she ran a red light. From what she described to me, she said that she had been going right at the speed limit but slammed on the brakes when she saw the light turn orange which caused the car to slow down but not come to a full stop as it was too late. Because of this, she ended up passing through the light when it was orange but it turned red before she made it to the other end of the intersection which is when the red light camera flashed.

I know that she’s not reckless or stupid enough to intentionally run a red light - it was her best judgment in the moment that it would’ve been safer to run an orange light then to slam on the brakes and end up smack in the middle of the intersection. I agree as that would have been far more dangerous.

Her story makes plenty of sense to me, so we are planning to appeal the offense. Does anybody know the chances of appeal success or if there is any way to get the penalty reduced? If I’m not wrong the offense carries 12 points and new drivers only have a 13 point allowance so this would mean that any other offense she makes would result in her having her license suspended. Appreciate any advice.

[malcontent]

This is a common issue with new drivers here; it requires a snap judgment. Plus, the yellow/amber light changes to red much faster in Singapore than in other countries.

You can appeal, but it needs to be in writing (at least that was the case the last time we did an appeal… and we were successful). Since it’s her first offense, I’d say you have at least a 50-50 chance of getting it dropped. You just need to be concise and fact-based in your written appeal, then be patient for them to review it.

[PNGMK]

She should appeal. You can do it two ways. Either in writing or in person at the Traffic Police office in Ubi (or at least you used to be able to do so). The other thing is she may be offered an option to do a course which reduces the penalty. My wife ran a red a few years ago on the way to church and was able to offset it this way.

If she doesn't succeed in reducing the penalty I would not drive much at all until the points drop off as there is not really suspension here but risk of outright cancellation of her DL which means she has to redo the entire process.

[Lisafuller]

This is a common issue with new drivers here; it requires a snap judgment. Plus, the yellow/amber light changes to red much faster in Singapore than in other countries.

You can appeal, but it needs to be in writing (at least that was the case the last time we did an appeal… and we were successful). Since it’s her first offense, I’d say you have at least a 50-50 chance of getting it dropped. You just need to be concise and fact-based in your written appeal, then be patient for them to review it.

How long ago was your appeal? And what was your reasoning? She’s very freaked out about this so I’m trying to help her as best as I can.

[Lisafuller]

She should appeal. You can do it two ways. Either in writing or in person at the Traffic Police office in Ubi (or at least you used to be able to do so). The other thing is she may be offered an option to do a course which reduces the penalty. My wife ran a red a few years ago on the way to church and was able to offset it this way.

If she doesn't succeed in reducing the penalty I would not drive much at all until the points drop off as there is not really suspension here but risk of outright cancellation of her DL which means she has to redo the entire process.

Saved by the church bell(s)! Which option do you think offers her the highest chance of success? I’d imagine she’d be able to rely on emotional appeal if she did in person, but she probably be able to get her thoughts out better on paper. Do you know how to do an appeal in person? Do you have to register online somehow?

[malcontent]

In our case the ticket was for illegal parking based on those nasty parking cameras… however, the spot we had “parked” was right at a place there was perpendicular traffic coming in and out, so we said we were only waiting for traffic to clear before we proceeded. That worked.

You definitely won’t get anywhere with an emotional appeal, it needs to be based on logic and facts. The fact that it was totally inadvertent and was a new driver with only months on the road should help. First time offenses from new drivers are easier to get excused from what I’ve heard.

[PNGMK]

To appeal in person you take the notice down to Ubi TP HQ and get a Q number (you are "querying the offense notice"). At least you used to. I'm sorry I cannot be much more help. I "almost" ran an amber/red yesterday myself - I swear it was only amber for 1 second it changed so fast. I basically skidded into the intersection and I wasn't going fast. I thought of your daughter at the time!

[Lisafuller]

In our case the ticket was for illegal parking based on those nasty parking cameras… however, the spot we had “parked” was right at a place there was perpendicular traffic coming in and out, so we said we were only waiting for traffic to clear before we proceeded. That worked.

You definitely won’t get anywhere with an emotional appeal, it needs to be based on logic and facts. The fact that it was totally inadvertent and was a new driver with only months on the road should help. First time offenses from new drivers are easier to get excused from what I’ve heard.

Ha ha, good that you got away with it. I hope they can be lenient with her, because 12 points is a lot.

[Lisafuller]

To appeal in person you take the notice down to Ubi TP HQ and get a Q number (you are "querying the offense notice"). At least you used to. I'm sorry I cannot be much more help. I "almost" ran an amber/red yesterday myself - I swear it was only amber for 1 second it changed so fast. I basically skidded into the intersection and I wasn't going fast. I thought of your daughter at the time!

So you definitely understand her struggle! I hope there wasn’t a camera at the intersection, or you may be facing the same problem pretty soon.

[PNGMK]

To appeal in person you take the notice down to Ubi TP HQ and get a Q number (you are "querying the offense notice"). At least you used to. I'm sorry I cannot be much more help. I "almost" ran an amber/red yesterday myself - I swear it was only amber for 1 second it changed so fast. I basically skidded into the intersection and I wasn't going fast. I thought of your daughter at the time!

So you definitely understand her struggle! I hope there wasn’t a camera at the intersection, or you may be facing the same problem pretty soon.

No there was no orange box (camera) so I think I'm ok. It's a shock after driving three weeks in the USA in June where you can turn on red and the yellow is long enough to stop the car, get out and have a piss, and get back in and move along.

[Lisafuller]

To appeal in person you take the notice down to Ubi TP HQ and get a Q number (you are "querying the offense notice"). At least you used to. I'm sorry I cannot be much more help. I "almost" ran an amber/red yesterday myself - I swear it was only amber for 1 second it changed so fast. I basically skidded into the intersection and I wasn't going fast. I thought of your daughter at the time!

So you definitely understand her struggle! I hope there wasn’t a camera at the intersection, or you may be facing the same problem pretty soon.

No there was no orange box (camera) so I think I'm ok. It's a shock after driving three weeks in the USA in June where you can turn on red and the yellow is long enough to stop the car, get out and have a piss, and get back in and move along.

Hahaha, literally!!! What are you doing back in the US? There for good?

[Lisafuller]

As of today I’ve just responded to the traffic police naming her as the offending driver. Ordinarily I might consider taking the fall for her but I can’t afford to as I’ve got 12 points (ironically, for the same offense a couple months ago - like mother like daughter I guess). I do hope that things work out for her, will update you all on the situation. Wish us luck!

[PNGMK]

So you definitely understand her struggle! I hope there wasn’t a camera at the intersection, or you may be facing the same problem pretty soon.

No there was no orange box (camera) so I think I'm ok. It's a shock after driving three weeks in the USA in June where you can turn on red and the yellow is long enough to stop the car, get out and have a piss, and get back in and move along.

Hahaha, literally!!! What are you doing back in the US? There for good?

It was our summer leave. I'm back now.

[Lisafuller]

An update for everyone, my daughter’s appeal was rejected, so she now has 12 points/13 and had to pay a fine of $400. Was really disappointed that they didn’t exercise a little bit more understanding or leniency considering she’s a new driver but it is what it is, she’ll just need to be more careful now. I am curious as to why there wasn’t an option to take a course to have the points reduced though, anybody know why?

[malcontent]

An update for everyone, my daughter’s appeal was rejected, so she now has 12 points/13 and had to pay a fine of $400. Was really disappointed that they didn’t exercise a little bit more understanding or leniency considering she’s a new driver but it is what it is, she’ll just need to be more careful now. I am curious as to why there wasn’t an option to take a course to have the points reduced though, anybody know why?

That is too bad. Worth the try though. I suspect it depends on the officer assigned to the case, if it’s a newer person, they would probably be more apt to go by the book.

I think I took that course when I got my first ticket in the US… but not sure if it only applies to < 18 drivers, as was the case for me.

I doubt they have such a program here.