What’s the deal with HDB cats?

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Lisafuller
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What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Jun 2022 4:10 am

I know the law technically prohibits residents from owning cats yet I see plenty of residents who have one or even multiple felines in their home. What exactly is the point of this law if it is not enforced?

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 26 Jun 2022 9:36 am

they would claim those are community cats if pushed. I think the HDB is turning a blind eye.
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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by abbby » Mon, 27 Jun 2022 9:38 am

I believe nothing is done unless neighbour complains about it.
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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 28 Jun 2022 2:20 am

PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 26 Jun 2022 9:36 am
they would claim those are community cats if pushed. I think the HDB is turning a blind eye.
Right, I assumed that but then my question is what is the point of keeping a law that is unenforced?

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 28 Jun 2022 2:20 am

abbby wrote:
Mon, 27 Jun 2022 9:38 am
I believe nothing is done unless neighbour complains about it.
Even if people complain, I doubt they do anything about removing the cat from the house. I don’t believe anything is done to enforce this rule.

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 28 Jun 2022 1:29 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 2:20 am
PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 26 Jun 2022 9:36 am
they would claim those are community cats if pushed. I think the HDB is turning a blind eye.
Right, I assumed that but then my question is what is the point of keeping a law that is unenforced?
Go read about 377A then you will understand. :oops!: :shit:
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 29 Jun 2022 1:40 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 1:29 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 28 Jun 2022 2:20 am
PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 26 Jun 2022 9:36 am
they would claim those are community cats if pushed. I think the HDB is turning a blind eye.
Right, I assumed that but then my question is what is the point of keeping a law that is unenforced?
Go read about 377A then you will understand. :oops!: :shit:
Right, but you ought to know that that’s different. Who in the older generation would be upset if they removed the law against keeping cats when majority of the people keeping cats in HDBs are also members of the older generation? Haha.

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 30 Jun 2022 5:15 pm

I am one of those older generations and I would be upset if they removed it. Cats breed like rats. There are too many feral cats in the HDB void decks already without having the caterwauling at night in flats as well as in the parking lots when they get cornered by a big old Tom when they come into heat.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 30 Jun 2022 9:41 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 30 Jun 2022 5:15 pm
I am one of those older generations and I would be upset if they removed it. Cats breed like rats. There are too many feral cats in the HDB void decks already without having the caterwauling at night in flats as well as in the parking lots when they get cornered by a big old Tom when they come into heat.
But what is the perceived difference? If they are keeping cats with or without the rule, what would change?

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 01 Jul 2022 3:50 pm

If it's a feral cat, then NEA or a pest control company will come in and catch them and have them neutered and then let them go (can no longer reproduce). But they can still keep rat populations down. However most feral cats here no long hunt mice because stupid do-gooder aunties feed them at night, thereby eliminating the hunting instinct in them, hence the increase in rat populations. Once neutered, no more coming into heat, no more caterwauling by the females and the randy Toms. Most house cats are not neutered or are kept indoors all the time (litter boxes only).
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by MOCHS » Sat, 02 Jul 2022 7:02 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Fri, 01 Jul 2022 3:50 pm
Most house cats are not neutered or are kept indoors all the time (litter boxes only).
Eh, all the cat rescue groups in SG put sterilised cats up for adoption, even my cat that I adopted from a local rescue was already spayed. Even if you adopt a kitten, the adoption contract states you have to get them sterilised when they’re of age.

It’s those who buy “pretty” pedigree cats that keep them unsterilised and turn into illegal backyard breeders that abandon the cats once they are “no longer of use”.

It’s a bloody long complicated history and from my understanding, the ban happened ‘cos people back then did not understand how to keep cats responsibly and did not know the benefits about sterilisation.

If the cat is unsterilised and goes into heat, they will have the urge to roam and mark their territory, hence the stupid archaic reasoning by HDB that “cats are wandering animals by nature and cannot be kept indoors”.

The above has been DEBUNKED numerous times. Once a cat is sterilised, they no longer want to venture outside, no longer spray their pee, and don’t caterwaul. Even my own cats have no interest in going outside.

Studies have also shown if you don’t spay or neuter the animal, they have a much higher chance of getting reproductive organ cancer. Every time they go into heat, the risk of cancer increases.

Indoor cats live longer. Seriously, that’s a no brainer. Being outdoors means they can get hit by a vehicle, fall off a building, bitten by dogs/cats, accidentally eat rat poison, get infectious diseases, etc.

The rescue groups here also check all windows & doors in a potential adopter’s home are meshed before they let you bring the cat home. Seriously, this is also another no brainer. If you love the cat, keep them safe and mesh the windows so they don’t break their legs or spine. My husband who works in a vet hospital saw an owner surrender their cat that fell 8 stories ‘cos they couldn’t afford the bill. Lucky the cat is able to walk now.

Usually, unsterilised community cats are handled by the community feeders for TNRM (trap-neuter-release-manage), not NEA or pest control. There are responsible feeders and then there are bad eggs. It’s also another complicated story.

My understanding is that there are feeders that build very good rapport with the town council so whenever there are disputes regarding cats, the town council contacts the feeders first or Cat Welfare Society instead of pest control.

However, there are feeders that are frustrated that whenever election rolls around, a “new set” of town council staff comes in who are clueless about community cats, and they have to re-build rapport again. This happened with a Sengkang feeder I follow on social media when it changed from PAP to WP.

A cat can be removed from HDB if the neighbours complain that the cat wanders into their homes and pees/poos indiscriminately. It has happened before. There was a case of an a**hole neighbour that tried to get someone’s cats removed even though the cats were strictly indoors.

I did talk to my neighbours that I will be getting a cat and the cat will not be let outside at all and the neighbours gave their approval.

Condos can sometimes be smaller than HDBs. If a cat can be allowed in a condo, why can’t they be in HDB? Both are tall apartment buildings with doors & windows.

It all boils down to responsible pet ownership regardless if it’s a dog, cat, rabbit, bird, etc. I don’t advocate about getting dogs banned whenever I see dog poo that wasn’t cleaned up downstairs on a frequent basis.

It is irresponsible cat owners that make life difficult for me and other responsible cat owners.

Yes, my cats don’t know how to hunt either. A fly entered my home the other day and they didn’t know what to do with it. At least they won’t get parasites or have weird spiny legs stuck in their throat.

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 02 Jul 2022 8:13 pm

I'm not disputing any of that at all. Except for the fact that in a condo or landed property it is your property and you pay for the ability to keep cats as do you on fully landed property. It is your property. That cannot be said about the HDB. They are government owned and the government must control the wellbeing of it's residents to the best of their ability, else they might get voted out at the next election. Therefore the rules they make are not to spite the small group of cat owners but cater to the majority of the voting population. It sucks, but there you go. But even then, the condo has a committee as well and could allow or disallow dogs and/or cats. But it is usually put to a vote by all the residents of that condo only.

"The above has been DEBUNKED numerous times. Once a cat is sterilised, they no longer want to venture outside, no longer spray their pee, and don’t caterwaul. Even my own cats have no interest in going outside."

Sounds like a good idea. When a human female reaches puberty, they should be sterilized unless she is from vetted "good stock". That will reduce the risk of unwanted babies, spreading of diseases, and the need to go out on the prowl to Zouk at nights. Good idea what. Oh, you only believe in butchering cats, izzit? Interesting set of double standards. At least women have the personal choice, either yeah or nay. Oh, wait, LKY already tried that in the 1970's. Tried to buy off women to get sterilized with a pittance of $5K. Now, got to pay $20K or more in baby bonus just to get them to have children, but they rather have a toy dog or a neutered cat. That way, when they get tired of it, they don't have to keep it until it's 18 years old or dies. They just give it up so it can be destroyed by an overworked AVA/NEA whoever they are using to terminate the no longer wanted or no longer fashionable. Or it just doesn't fit their lifestyle now.

Until two years ago my sister in Plant City FL (outside of Tampa) ran a medical rescue service for small, toy dogs (e.g., Chi's, Poms, small terriers, etc. These were dogs that couldn't be rehomed due existing medical or physical issues and would have been put down. It was a registered non-profit organization ran from her home and at any given time she might have a dozen dogs there. Once they were stabilized she would find foster homes for them and eventually permanent homes. Some were not really dogs that could be rehomed. These became permanent residents (usually around 11 to 13 dogs. Sadly she lost her husband last October to blood cancer and had to shut down the service as she had too much on her hands (she turns 73 in 2 weeks (she 2 years my junior). I helped support her over those dozen years as it was totally non-profit and medical attention (operations in particular) were expensive. (She started it after she retired from the Florida State Board of Corrections (her and her husband were both parole officers.)
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by MOCHS » Sat, 02 Jul 2022 8:47 pm

Not sure why the topic suddenly turned to LKY’s old policy to reduce the population…? Both are different subjects.

Did my words get misinterpreted? Just saying sterilising domestic cats virtually removes the complaints of the “roaming nature of cats”.

If you’re saying the cat (or any other domestic animal) did not consent to being sterilised and therefore has the rights to birth their own offspring, that is going to be a discussion with no proper answer or ending. Rescue groups believe in sterilising dogs/cats to negate the suffering of any puppy/kitten born outside in the wild, only 25% of a litter born outdoors survive to adulthood.

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Re: What’s the deal with HDB cats?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 03 Jul 2022 2:38 am

Yep, it is quite well known among responsible cat owners these days that sterilizing them increases their life span.

My family back in India has a sterilized cat - all of 18 years and going strong. The only thing is that she is a pretty good hunter despite being sterilized. At least she was in her younger years -she's slowed down with age of course. But this is probably not the norm (to be a good hunter after being sterilized) .

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