Can anyone please let me know if 190k in 2022 a good salary in Singapore ?

[Lisafuller]

I couldn’t imagine any foreigner coming to a country where they would earn less and have to live a less extravagant lifestyle.

It sounds like you are describing me when I moved to Singapore… earned less less extravagant lifestyle .

It’s like I’ve always said, people move to Singapore for one of two reasons — love or money. So if you are an Indian and have no family or love interest here, you’d better be getting the money, or else it’s not worth it.

Well you moved for love, which makes sense. My point is that I can’t imagine anyone moving if the move wouldn’t offer them any additional advantage.

[Lisafuller]

Most of the sacrifice involves using public transportation which many view as a small trade in for the ability to save up more due to less taxes and favorable rupee conversion rate. Additionally, the sgd to rupee rate has been trending towards the rupee weakening in relation to the sgd. Most people are quite happy to ditch driving anyway, given the lousy traffic in most large Indian cities, so many probably won't view it as a downgrade.

How is the public transport system in India? The videos and photos I see are all of really packed trains, don’t really feel like an expert would be able to adjust to that, unless of course my impression is off.

Not the best. If you are middle class, you would really be looking at driving.

That’s what I thought, so if you were an expat who’d moved to India for work chances are if anything you would be upper class so how’s it possible that they would be willing to take public transport?

[smoulder]

How is the public transport system in India? The videos and photos I see are all of really packed trains, don’t really feel like an expert would be able to adjust to that, unless of course my impression is off.

Not the best. If you are middle class, you would really be looking at driving.

That’s what I thought, so if you were an expat who’d moved to India for work chances are if anything you would be upper class so how’s it possible that they would be willing to take public transport?

We were talking about the other way around. Indians moving to Singapore who are happy to ditch driving because it saves money AND the public transportation works pretty well in Singapore. So they won't necessarily view it as a sacrifice.

[Lisafuller]

Got it. I was referring to expats moving to India.

[smoulder]

Got it. I was referring to expats moving to India.

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

[Myasis Dragon]

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

For Singapore, it's become more about equalization of costs versus income. If you're coming from a cheap city, then allowances for housing, transportation, and schooling are more about equalization, to keep the expat at a similar level. Similarly, if coming from an expensive city, then the expat will want to negotiate a salary plan that reflects the balance between Singapore and other city's cost of living.

'Cause, it's certainly hard to call Singapore a "hardship".

[Lisafuller]

Got it. I was referring to expats moving to India.

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

Agree, I believe the reason why expat packages would be given, if anything, is so that those from other equally developed countries overseas who are moving to Singapore will be able to afford to send their kids to schools that offer the curriculum from their home country, and not have to stay in public housing as that is really quite a drop in standard of living. When I say this I’m mostly envisioning an American expat coming into singapore as someone living in a landed property in the US with their kids going to school with the high school honors/AP curriculum. To come to Singapore without a package would mean they would incur a lot of additional expenses that would reduce their salary significantly in order to maintain the same standard of living.

[Lisafuller]

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

For Singapore, it's become more about equalization of costs versus income. If you're coming from a cheap city, then allowances for housing, transportation, and schooling are more about equalization, to keep the expat at a similar level. Similarly, if coming from an expensive city, then the expat will want to negotiate a salary plan that reflects the balance between Singapore and other city's cost of living.

'Cause, it's certainly hard to call Singapore a "hardship".

Exactly, this is what I meant. It’s obviously no hardship to be living in singapore, just that in order to maintain a similar quality of life without having your expenses go haywire you would need to have a little bit of your income supplemented by your company.

[malcontent]

Got it. I was referring to expats moving to India.

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

Agree, I believe the reason why expat packages would be given, if anything, is so that those from other equally developed countries overseas who are moving to Singapore will be able to afford to send their kids to schools that offer the curriculum from their home country, and not have to stay in public housing as that is really quite a drop in standard of living. When I say this I’m mostly envisioning an American expat coming into singapore as someone living in a landed property in the US with their kids going to school with the high school honors/AP curriculum. To come to Singapore without a package would mean they would incur a lot of additional expenses that would reduce their salary significantly in order to maintain the same standard of living.

I know some high flyers in my company who were posted to Singapore from the US and they got S$3800/mo posting allowance to cover the COL differential — I heard them talking about it and they said they give the entire amount to their their trailing spouse. On top of this, they get a 5-figure monthly rental in the Claymore/Draycott area, and kids are sent to SAS, all on the company dime. They used to get company paid business class tickets back home once a year (whole family), but that has been cut back to premium economy. For the car, they can get one new or two used cars, and the company pays 85% of the cost (up to a maximum).

[malcontent]

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

For Singapore, it's become more about equalization of costs versus income. If you're coming from a cheap city, then allowances for housing, transportation, and schooling are more about equalization, to keep the expat at a similar level. Similarly, if coming from an expensive city, then the expat will want to negotiate a salary plan that reflects the balance between Singapore and other city's cost of living.

'Cause, it's certainly hard to call Singapore a "hardship".

Exactly, this is what I meant. It’s obviously no hardship to be living in singapore, just that in order to maintain a similar quality of life without having your expenses go haywire you would need to have a little bit of your income supplemented by your company.

I know of at least one full package expat who was living here that would vehemently disagree. He had it all, 5 figure monthly rental, two cars, kids at SAS, home leave, posting allowance… but he said it still wasn’t enough and he came up short. The reason why? Because he had horses. He wife and daughter would not compromise on their lifestyle, and horses were a major part of that. So they brought their horses over here and paid a crazy sum out of their own pocket to do that. In the end, he said it was just too costly to sustain their lifestyle here and requested to go back to the US. So despite the company paying in excess of S$500k annually for an expat package, it simply wasn’t enough and they could live a better life back home on their own dime… with less personal expenses despite no package.

[Lisafuller]

Right. So there's largely 2 types of foreigners that would move. Someone who's been moved there on an expat package from a country with a high living standard. They are going to be given expat packages and I believe one of the big reasons for this is that moving to India would be considered a hardship posting. The other kind of foreigner is someone who is moving from a less developed country. They are going to be given local packages because it is not considered a hardship posting.

This is related to the other topic where we were talking about expat packages in Singapore. It's well known in general now that expat packages are on the decline here because in the last 3 decades, Singapore standards of living have improved quite a bit and they don't consider this a hardship posting.

I believe this is universal logic.

Agree, I believe the reason why expat packages would be given, if anything, is so that those from other equally developed countries overseas who are moving to Singapore will be able to afford to send their kids to schools that offer the curriculum from their home country, and not have to stay in public housing as that is really quite a drop in standard of living. When I say this I’m mostly envisioning an American expat coming into singapore as someone living in a landed property in the US with their kids going to school with the high school honors/AP curriculum. To come to Singapore without a package would mean they would incur a lot of additional expenses that would reduce their salary significantly in order to maintain the same standard of living.

I know some high flyers in my company who were posted to Singapore from the US and they got S$3800/mo posting allowance to cover the COL differential — I heard them talking about it and they said they give the entire amount to their their trailing spouse. On top of this, they get a 5-figure monthly rental in the Claymore/Draycott area, and kids are sent to SAS, all on the company dime. They used to get company paid business class tickets back home once a year (whole family), but that has been cut back to premium economy. For the car, they can get one new or two used cars, and the company pays 85% of the cost (up to a maximum).

Yeah, this is a lot like the situation I’m referring to. Company pays for pretty much everything, and the kids get to go to amazing International Schools like SAS. For an expat not on a package, these costs would be incredibly burdensome, or straight up unaffordable.

[Lisafuller]

For Singapore, it's become more about equalization of costs versus income. If you're coming from a cheap city, then allowances for housing, transportation, and schooling are more about equalization, to keep the expat at a similar level. Similarly, if coming from an expensive city, then the expat will want to negotiate a salary plan that reflects the balance between Singapore and other city's cost of living.

'Cause, it's certainly hard to call Singapore a "hardship".

Exactly, this is what I meant. It’s obviously no hardship to be living in singapore, just that in order to maintain a similar quality of life without having your expenses go haywire you would need to have a little bit of your income supplemented by your company.

I know of at least one full package expat who was living here that would vehemently disagree. He had it all, 5 figure monthly rental, two cars, kids at SAS, home leave, posting allowance… but he said it still wasn’t enough and he came up short. The reason why? Because he had horses. He wife and daughter would not compromise on their lifestyle, and horses were a major part of that. So they brought their horses over here and paid a crazy sum out of their own pocket to do that. In the end, he said it was just too costly to sustain their lifestyle here and requested to go back to the US. So despite the company paying in excess of S$500k annually for an expat package, it simply wasn’t enough and they could live a better life back home on their own dime… with less personal expenses despite no package.

Well that’s pretty extreme. Who the hell has horses here? Hahaha. Perhaps it would’ve been better to have the wife and children live in the US, though I understand for most families this sort of separation would be less than ideal. Moving to a new country comes requires a lot of give-and-take, you can’t expect to retain every single luxury. They already got so much, horses were pushing it.

[malcontent]

Exactly, this is what I meant. It’s obviously no hardship to be living in singapore, just that in order to maintain a similar quality of life without having your expenses go haywire you would need to have a little bit of your income supplemented by your company.

I know of at least one full package expat who was living here that would vehemently disagree. He had it all, 5 figure monthly rental, two cars, kids at SAS, home leave, posting allowance… but he said it still wasn’t enough and he came up short. The reason why? Because he had horses. He wife and daughter would not compromise on their lifestyle, and horses were a major part of that. So they brought their horses over here and paid a crazy sum out of their own pocket to do that. In the end, he said it was just too costly to sustain their lifestyle here and requested to go back to the US. So despite the company paying in excess of S$500k annually for an expat package, it simply wasn’t enough and they could live a better life back home on their own dime… with less personal expenses despite no package.

Well that’s pretty extreme. Who the hell has horses here? Hahaha. Perhaps it would’ve been better to have the wife and children live in the US, though I understand for most families this sort of separation would be less than ideal. Moving to a new country comes requires a lot of give-and-take, you can’t expect to retain every single luxury. They already got so much, horses were pushing it.

Yes, but the point is that despite all the perceived luxury (by local standards) that an expat package allegedly provides, and the jaw dropping price tag that comes with it… that is not always enough to tempt someone to come to Singapore. I think that says as much about how limited and expensive life can be in Singapore as it does about the vast lifestyle possibilities available to ordinary folks back home at a tiny fraction of the cost.

I would say that vast majority of expats I meet from the US are left scratching their heads, they think the condos in Draycott/Claymore are just ‘okay’ by US standards (to them, 2,900 Sq Ft is small, but the facilities make up for it). However, they would never in a million years shell out 5 figures monthly to stay there if it were on their own dime.

[NYY1]

I know of at least one full package expat who was living here that would vehemently disagree. He had it all, 5 figure monthly rental, two cars, kids at SAS, home leave, posting allowance… but he said it still wasn’t enough and he came up short. The reason why? Because he had horses. He wife and daughter would not compromise on their lifestyle, and horses were a major part of that. So they brought their horses over here and paid a crazy sum out of their own pocket to do that. In the end, he said it was just too costly to sustain their lifestyle here and requested to go back to the US. So despite the company paying in excess of S$500k annually for an expat package, it simply wasn’t enough and they could live a better life back home on their own dime… with less personal expenses despite no package.

Well that’s pretty extreme. Who the hell has horses here? Hahaha. Perhaps it would’ve been better to have the wife and children live in the US, though I understand for most families this sort of separation would be less than ideal. Moving to a new country comes requires a lot of give-and-take, you can’t expect to retain every single luxury. They already got so much, horses were pushing it.

Yes, but the point is that despite all the perceived luxury (by local standards) that an expat package allegedly provides, and the jaw dropping price tag that comes with it… that is not always enough to tempt someone to come to Singapore. I think that says as much about how limited and expensive life can be in Singapore as it does about the vast lifestyle possibilities available to ordinary folks back home at a tiny fraction of the cost.

I would say that vast majority of expats I meet from the US are left scratching their heads, they think the condos in Draycott/Claymore are just ‘okay’ by US standards (to them, 2,900 Sq Ft is small, but the facilities make up for it). However, they would never in a million years shell out 5 figures monthly to stay there if it were on their own dime.

Sometimes I am surprised that you have lived here for 20 (?) years. In the near future, I think you will make a great Chairman of the Previously Lived in Singapore Association.

[Lisafuller]

I know of at least one full package expat who was living here that would vehemently disagree. He had it all, 5 figure monthly rental, two cars, kids at SAS, home leave, posting allowance… but he said it still wasn’t enough and he came up short. The reason why? Because he had horses. He wife and daughter would not compromise on their lifestyle, and horses were a major part of that. So they brought their horses over here and paid a crazy sum out of their own pocket to do that. In the end, he said it was just too costly to sustain their lifestyle here and requested to go back to the US. So despite the company paying in excess of S$500k annually for an expat package, it simply wasn’t enough and they could live a better life back home on their own dime… with less personal expenses despite no package.

Well that’s pretty extreme. Who the hell has horses here? Hahaha. Perhaps it would’ve been better to have the wife and children live in the US, though I understand for most families this sort of separation would be less than ideal. Moving to a new country comes requires a lot of give-and-take, you can’t expect to retain every single luxury. They already got so much, horses were pushing it.

Yes, but the point is that despite all the perceived luxury (by local standards) that an expat package allegedly provides, and the jaw dropping price tag that comes with it… that is not always enough to tempt someone to come to Singapore. I think that says as much about how limited and expensive life can be in Singapore as it does about the vast lifestyle possibilities available to ordinary folks back home at a tiny fraction of the cost.

I would say that vast majority of expats I meet from the US are left scratching their heads, they think the condos in Draycott/Claymore are just ‘okay’ by US standards (to them, 2,900 Sq Ft is small, but the facilities make up for it). However, they would never in a million years shell out 5 figures monthly to stay there if it were on their own dime.

I get it, I just don’t think it’s very representative of the general expat population. It still is crazy to imagine that there are some people like this! And yes, expat sticker shock when it comes to property prices in Singapore is really severe. Back in the US you could get an apartment of similar quality to the Draycott/Ardmore Park ones for two or three grand a month. Apartments are actually seen as second tier housing most of the time compared to houses that come with land, unless of course we are talking about luxury apartments in which case that is an entirely different conversation.