PR application chance 2022

[Haroyken]

Hi,
I'd really appreciated some inputs on my chance for PR application. Thanks a lot in advance.

Applicant (my self):
Age: 33
Nationality : South East Asian (others category)
Education: Bachelor from NTU
Length of Stay: 4 year (studying) + 7 years working
Work : Electronic (Integrated Circuit) Engineer
Pass: S-Pass
Salary: ~60K (basic); taxable income ~150K (company use stock grant as enumeration)
Has a private property (under mortgage) with my wife.

Spouse:
Age: 33
Nationality: South East Asian (others category)
Education: Bachelors in home country, Master in UK
Length of Stay in Singapore: 5 years from 2015-2020, currently in home country

Child: 5 years old. Currently in home country

My main issue is that there's a huge gap between my basic salary vs real salary. And the real salary is based on stock that're already vested to me during the year (not those that're granted but not vested/released yet). Is there any way to highlight this during the application ?

Also, since my wife and son are not here in Singapore. Do you think that I should apply alone ? I would much rather apply together though but one immigration agency suggest that I apply alone, haven't engage them yet.

Thank you very much for your opinions.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Which "Other" S.E.Asian country?

[Haroyken]

Hi SMS, thanks for taking a look it's Vietnam, a SEA country and not Chinese, Malay, Inida -> hence Others category

[sundaymorningstaple]

Based on ethnicity I think your chances are extremely low. I will not say zero, but unless you are ethnically a Chinese Vietnamese (not Kinh) the government here is not too VN friendly when it comes to immigration here. Not saying it doesn't occasionally happen (once in a blue moon) but sadly the PAP led government has 1975 mentality with regard to VN. I am personally well aware of the issues as I worked from 1988 to 1991 with UNHCR during the mass exodus of your people when being finally released from re-education camps there. In addition to that I'm also an AMVET chopper pilot during the war 1966-1968 so had a lot of interaction with the government during the 3.5 years working with UNHCR from the various refugee camps in S.E.Asia (including the Hawkins Road Camp here in Singapore). Singapore was the only country in S.E. Asia that flatly refused to take any refugees for resettlement and also had bad habit of giving boats fuel, water and some food and towed them back out into international waters (SG Navy). My advice is if you are Kinh Vietnamese, look towards Canada, US and possibly Aus. There are huge Vietnamese communities in both Canada and the US as they took the vast majority of the refugees. Even if you were to get PR here, it would be highly unlikely for you to ever get SGC. It is what it is and I'm sorry to be so negative, but it's only fair to you.

NB: I pretty much guessed your were from VN with my second guess being from the 'peens.
I've been here in Singapore for 40 years this coming June. I spent 18 months in your country during the war. Very familiar with the whole thing.

[Haroyken]

Thanks for sharing SMS. I truly appreciate your frank analysis.

[Pantsgrenadier]

Based on ethnicity I think your chances are extremely low. I will not say zero, but unless you are ethnically a Chinese Vietnamese (not Kinh) the government here is not too VN friendly when it comes to immigration here. Not saying it doesn't occasionally happen (once in a blue moon) but sadly the PAP led government has 1975 mentality with regard to VN. I am personally well aware of the issues as I worked from 1988 to 1991 with UNHCR during the mass exodus of your people when being finally released from re-education camps there. In addition to that I'm also an AMVET chopper pilot during the war 1966-1968 so had a lot of interaction with the government during the 3.5 years working with UNHCR from the various refugee camps in S.E.Asia (including the Hawkins Road Camp here in Singapore). Singapore was the only country in S.E. Asia that flatly refused to take any refugees for resettlement and also had bad habit of giving boats fuel, water and some food and towed them back out into international waters (SG Navy). My advice is if you are Kinh Vietnamese, look towards Canada, US and possibly Aus. There are huge Vietnamese communities in both Canada and the US as they took the vast majority of the refugees. Even if you were to get PR here, it would be highly unlikely for you to ever get SGC. It is what it is and I'm sorry to be so negative, but it's only fair to you.

NB: I pretty much guessed your were from VN with my second guess being from the 'peens.
I've been here in Singapore for 40 years this coming June. I spent 18 months in your country during the war. Very familiar with the whole thing.

Hi SMS, I am not really familiar with the whole thing about government's attitude toward Vietnamese, so will not comment much on that.

Just want to share that before 2010, Vietnamese student studying in public school or uni generally received an invitation letter for PR application, which mostly guaranteed successful application. After 2010, well, we all know what happened, not just for Vietnamese, but for most non-chinese race.

My wife herself was a recipient of ASEAN scholarship in 2007, and came here to study since Secondary school, and all the way to NTU. She got her PR after JC, and applied for citizenship 1 year before we got married. Her citizenship application was approved just 1 week after our wedding and marriage registration.

Among her batch of Vietnamese ASEAN scholars (not a lot, but not too few either), about 60% got their PR. The rest either went to other countries, lost the invitation letter or just ignore the whole PR thing altogether. Of those who got PR, almost those who applied for citizenship was successful.

I'm not really sure what to make of this data, but just want to share it anyway. Maybe being a scholar pre-2010 make you more valuable in the eyes of government? As for me, a Vietnamese who came to study after 2010, you can pretty much guess I'm still an EP holder

[sundaymorningstaple]

Yeah, I knew about the Scholar invitation thing. I also know if one did not take it up when offered, it was highly unlikely to be successful if you tried after working for a couple of years (regardless of which ASEAN country you were from). In fact, they stopped offering it as too few actually took them up on the offer as most "wanted to keep their options open" thereby sealing their fate with regard to Singapore.

I had a VN accountant working for me on a S pass. She married a VN who, like your wife, went to uni here on a scholarship and also had the letter and ultimately managed to gain PR as well, but for 5 years up till I retired, he could not get his wife PR. Nor has he been successful gaining SGC. In fact he is a building engineer for one of the Universities here (or at least he was until I retired 2.5 years ago). It's not easy. What I would be interested in knowing is what was the male/female ratio of those VN students in your wife's cohort who were successful in gaining PR. Would your wife be able to recollect that data? Obviously I haven't worked for the government and can only go by anecdotal evidence from this board and my own personal experience in Human Resources for 25 years.

The other piece of data I'm missing which possibly could be a factor (this only from my point of view) is where, in VN one is from. It would be interesting to see the origin factor of those Asean Students. There used to be a definite bias here based on whether an individual was originally from the old North or South Vietnam as Singapore was always fearful of the domino effect and the N. Vietnamese Communists. When you stop and consider, old habits die hard and the same party has been in power here since 1963, there is a distinct possibility that that may have had some bearing. If it's loosening up I'll be glad to see it.

And a big thank you for providing additional information it's always welcome here.

[Pantsgrenadier]

The things about "wanted to keep their options open" is interesting, because that was exactly the mindset of some people in my wife's cohort that time (and the batch before). However, from our (both me and wife) point of view, in 2022, getting the PR back then should actually give you "more options". It's not like they banned PR from going anywhere right?

Among my tiny circle, I never knew any Vnamese PR who could obtain the PR for their spouse. Either they get PR on their own, or one of them is a citizen. So your accountant's situation may not be too far from common. Regarding SGC, maybe the fact that my wife came here since secondary school, not uni, gave ICA more confidence that she can assimilate in Singapore society better? Just my guess.

From what I understand, male student who get PR is required to go NS. Hence, that might be the reason that most of the guys in my wife's cohort is among the 40% who never applied for PR. However, there was this particular guy; he got PR after secondary school and went on to obtain citizenship before completing JC. Everyone was so shocked, because that was the real "sealing other options" that we talked above.

My wife, a northerner, never counted the number of students from reach region. But the fact that her group of friends, about 4-5 northerner, all got their PR, may give us the hint that VN communism is no longer a threat by the 2000s haha. In fact, it's quite hard to qualify VN as a communist country nowadays.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The things about "wanted to keep their options open" is interesting, because that was exactly the mindset of some people in my wife's cohort that time (and the batch before). However, from our (both me and wife) point of view, in 2022, getting the PR back then should actually give you "more options". It's not like they banned PR from going anywhere right?

Fair point, but as noted, it does seem to be a 'thing' at that age. A couple of years in the work force soon teaches you the difference but then you tend to get settled in and become more hesitant to make the jump into the unknown. (Kind of like I'm still here after 40 years (albeit I've started my own dynasty here and the third generation is grown to 3 now - I got more blood here than I do in the US now.

Among my tiny circle, I never knew any Vnamese PR who could obtain the PR for their spouse. Either they get PR on their own, or one of them is a citizen. So your accountant's situation may not be too far from common. Regarding SGC, maybe the fact that my wife came here since secondary school, not uni, gave ICA more confidence that she can assimilate in Singapore society better? Just my guess.

Actually I was thinking along those same lines when I was scripting my first reply but was also looking along the baby factory thinking as well. That's why is so easy for M'sian Chinese girls to get PR here, easy assimilation, right ethnicity and fertile. Something the country needs badly.

From what I understand, male student who get PR is required to go NS. Hence, that might be the reason that most of the guys in my wife's cohort is among the 40% who never applied for PR. However, there was this particular guy; he got PR after secondary school and went on to obtain citizenship before completing JC. Everyone was so shocked, because that was the real "sealing other options" that we talked above.

This is what usually stalls most male ASEAN graduates - the NS issue.

My wife, a northerner, never counted the number of students from reach region. But the fact that her group of friends, about 4-5 northerner, all got their PR, may give us the hint that VN communism is no longer a threat by the 2000s haha. In fact, it's quite hard to qualify VN as a communist country nowadays.

This is true.

Hope you have some luck on your next PR application. You sound like somebody who would be an asset to this country. I wish you luck.

[bagush]

Hi SMS,

It would be really helpful if you could advise few points to strengthen the PR application for Indian mid 30s , applying first timewith family
Salary : 200k annual + bonus
Kid 5 years , daughter
Wife working in DP , 3k per month
6 years in SG , Software local banking( latest high tech)
Regular financial contributions to social causes for past 3 years
Being Indian chances are always low, but anything which can be done to strengthen?

[sundaymorningstaple]

You did not include your academic credentials. If you do not have an advanced degree, e.g., MSc (if you are in IT or a related BSc) it would be one way if from a local Uni NUS/NTU etc. But just how much strength it would add is pure speculation but we do see a lot of those who did get lucky that did a related Masters in a local university. How much an MBA would do is probably "not much" from where you are sitting at the moment. Aside from that, social contributions of a monetary kind are waste of time. Invest it. Government was burn by the abuse by PR applicants around 10 years ago. (I've been in the Peoples Association here for 15 years so I know this for fact.)

Honestly, income is good, not to high where you would look like a flight risk, not to low to where you would need your wife to actually work, e.g., if she were to conceive again (maybe with a male baby-just sayin'). Again, how much that would that help is subjective. You did not indicate how long you have been married and if your daughter was born in Singapore or in India (this seems to be a rather normal occurrence with Indian families). Should that be the case, would ICA suspect the potential of trying to have the 2nd child birthed in India, if found to be a male before actual birth, in order to avoid PR for the child and subsequent NS obligation.

I've included a lot here, all just food for thought. Nothing I have said will ensure success in a PR application, but over a period of time we do see trends. Right now, you are still feeling the backlash from your countrymen who came before you and managed to make it into Management of HR departments. You would have been here to see and hear the backlash after the 2015 General Election when all this came to light and also the gross misunderstanding of the CECA signed by the government with your country that the local population did not understand (and most still don't).

Patience and persistence are going to be your best friend, but do not keep applying 6 or 12 months after a rejection. Anecdotally you should wait 24 months after your rejection before reapplying and continue to apply as a full family (In theory with advancements, increments, dependents, etc.) We have occasionally seen or heard of some who have been successful after 4 or 5 tries. But I have to agree, that that seems to be pushing the envelope. I'd be inclined to try at least 3 times. (In fact, I did, more or less - applied-rejected / appealed-rejected / reapplied 4 years later - successful (took me 11 years in total) This before we had forums like this.

What ever you decide to do, ensure you have a workable Plan B and/or Plan C. Good Luck

sms