Bye Bye Singapore

[ukdesigner]

As the title suggests it's bye bye from me. After nearly 15 years my journey has come to an end.
Thanks to all the mods who initially helped me out all those years ago and whilst I haven't really been active these last few years on here, I did pop on occasionally to see what was going on.

Sadly watching things like FNDC fade away due to covid was sad as were all the, in my view anyway, heavy anti-foreigner sentiment that was coming through these last few years. I know it popped up every couple of years but this was the worst I had ever seen.

I have many many gripes in how I feel foreigners, and more specifically foreign taxpayers, were treated during covid, and it was a major part of why I've left. Luckily my business is transferable globally and that's what I've done.

So farewell and thanks for the help and if anyone asks about Singapore I would highly recommend they certainly visit and enjoy all that it has to offer. The same would be of this forum and I will be forever grateful for the wisdom and honest advice passed down to me.

Take care all.

[Myasis Dragon]

Wow! You probably remember me as Strong Eagle when I was active as a mod on the board, and I remember you as the individual who jumped through the many hoops put in place for an Entrepass. You led the way in showing how it could be done.

I would be most interested in hearing about your experiences, from the challenges you faced as a foreigner in starting and keeping your business running, to the treatment you received. It would certainly help me build a better picture of how Singapore is evolving.

I'm lighting a joss stick for your continued happiness and success wherever you end up.

[jwoods1864]

As the title suggests it's bye bye from me. After nearly 15 years my journey has come to an end.
Thanks to all the mods who initially helped me out all those years ago and whilst I haven't really been active these last few years on here, I did pop on occasionally to see what was going on.

Sadly watching things like FNDC fade away due to covid was sad as were all the, in my view anyway, heavy anti-foreigner sentiment that was coming through these last few years. I know it popped up every couple of years but this was the worst I had ever seen.

I have many many gripes in how I feel foreigners, and more specifically foreign taxpayers, were treated during covid, and it was a major part of why I've left. Luckily my business is transferable globally and that's what I've done.

So farewell and thanks for the help and if anyone asks about Singapore I would highly recommend they certainly visit and enjoy all that it has to offer. The same would be of this forum and I will be forever grateful for the wisdom and honest advice passed down to me.

Take care all.

I was shocked by how quickly xenophobia rised during Covid. Having separate categories for dormitory workers and imported cases really fueled it I think. The sentiment was indeed palpable and judging by your comments still is.

Anyone else care to share their thoughts?


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[smoulder]

I think when it comes to foreigners, there are 2 things and I believe that they shouldn't be confused together.

One is the official treatment of foreigners - government policies. This affects all foreigners - EP holders, S Pass, Work Pass and even PRs to an extent.

The second is xenophobia by common people. The brunt of xenophobia is borne by folks from the subcontinent, with perhaps Filipinos and PRCs a distant second.

[sundaymorningstaple]

A lot of the xenophobia is brought upon some due to those from the same place who came before them and burned bridges while here. You know how that old saying goes - one all shit will wipe out 1000 attaboys.

[smoulder]

I think that is a factor, but I honestly believe it's also a carry over from decades of the same treatment towards the "true blue" citizens of the same ethnicity.

[ukdesigner]

It wasn’t the locals actually and in most cases they were as shocked as I was in how the G men handled foreigners.

For a bit more detail I was personally disgusted in what happened with the dormitory workers. How can you forget, what is it, 500,000 people? Seriously disgusting. Then when it came to passes, doubling s-pass quotas overnight was a joke and then to add insult to injury making dependant pass holders apply for an EP. Dependant pass holders take up so few jobs that all they’ve done is cut another tax revenue stream. Idiotic. Then giving people 30 days to leave Singapore when it’s been their home for 14+ years, which they did to a friend of mine, I was disgusted with them.

And then finally, just to stick the knife in further to foreigners, offer no kind of support at all. All my local staff received JSS support and me, nothing. Did I not contribute tax for 15 years? Did I not contribute corporation tax for 8 odd years when I went Pte Ltd? I wouldn’t expect what locals received but even some help would’ve been nice. I drained nearly all my company’s reserves keeping people employed locally but that doesn’t garner favours.

So be blunt, f*** em. I moved my income stream all overseas, sent my foreign staff home and employed them remotely and will in the long term look at my local staff management. I haven’t made any final decisions on that but I will probably keep what I have and then look globally at resources. So in 1 fail swoop, the G men have lost my personal tax, my wife’s personal tax, 1 other employee’s tax and finally my business tax. Add on our spend in the economy + rent +food + shopping etc etc it’s a very shortsighted view. But hey ho, I’m happy I’ve moved but also grateful for what Singapore gave me and allowed me to achieve. I guess it was just the end of the road for me.

Anyway, that’s the end of my rant.

[ukdesigner]

Wow! You probably remember me as Strong Eagle when I was active as a mod on the board, and I remember you as the individual who jumped through the many hoops put in place for an Entrepass. You led the way in showing how it could be done.

I would be most interested in hearing about your experiences, from the challenges you faced as a foreigner in starting and keeping your business running, to the treatment you received. It would certainly help me build a better picture of how Singapore is evolving.

I'm lighting a joss stick for your continued happiness and success wherever you end up.

I certainly do remember. You were a great help to me. I did jump through hoops. Typically that was as I grew the business and added more local staff. As I grew they made it harder to renew and kept changing the rules. Ultimately I was tired of having a carrot dangled in front of me so moved back home. Shame really. I love Singapore. It was really good to me and I love the culture, the food, the closeness to Bali and other countries and I made loads of lifelong friends.

[PNGMK]

Even local companies have had the same issues - the carbon consulting firm I work at plans not to bring any of their EP holders back (which is a loss of tax revenue) but continue to WFH. The treatment of them rankled the management terribly. There's a bit of PRC mentality in the G (just look at Shanghai today - just like the workers dorms). I like individual Singaporeans a lot but as a whole (a crowd? a mob? a murder? a sinking mess?) they are passive aggressive asswipes who think that money is class and power.

[Addadude]

So farewell and thanks for the help and if anyone asks about Singapore I would highly recommend they certainly visit and enjoy all that it has to offer. The same would be of this forum and I will be forever grateful for the wisdom and honest advice passed down to me.

Take care all.

Safe travels ukdesigner. We had had an interesting discussion on Advertising about 13 years ago ( ). Sorry Singapore didn't really work out for you but I'm sure this board will welcome your contributions anytime!

[ukdesigner]

Even local companies have had the same issues - the carbon consulting firm I work at plans not to bring any of their EP holders back (which is a loss of tax revenue) but continue to WFH. The treatment of them rankled the management terribly. There's a bit of PRC mentality in the G (just look at Shanghai today - just like the workers dorms). I like individual Singaporeans a lot but as a whole (a crowd? a mob? a murder? a sinking mess?) they are passive aggressive asswipes who think that money is class and power.

I feel the way they treated EP holders, with things like requiring permission to return) was disgusting. Didn't they realise they're also residents?

Sadly it showed Singapore at it's worst and a class system whereby SG's and PR's were of a higher class and EP holders were 2nd and lower class. Not even citizens. The whole think stank and I have and did defend the G-men for a lot of things but it became a snowball effect and each decision became worse and worse and felt very targeted. The dorm workers... I don't know how they didn't have riots on their hands to be honest. They must've gone stir crazy.

[Lisafuller]

It wasn’t the locals actually and in most cases they were as shocked as I was in how the G men handled foreigners.

For a bit more detail I was personally disgusted in what happened with the dormitory workers. How can you forget, what is it, 500,000 people? Seriously disgusting. Then when it came to passes, doubling s-pass quotas overnight was a joke and then to add insult to injury making dependant pass holders apply for an EP. Dependant pass holders take up so few jobs that all they’ve done is cut another tax revenue stream. Idiotic. Then giving people 30 days to leave Singapore when it’s been their home for 14+ years, which they did to a friend of mine, I was disgusted with them.

The way they handled the FWs in dorms during covid was especially eye-opening for me. Caged up like animals, without a care in the world for their wellbeing. Absolutely disgusting.

[smoulder]

^what I believe is that there are many common folks who don't mind that kind of arrangement. A case where the government policy reflects the attitude of the society.

You could feel it in people's attitudes before the pandemic. You need the labor because they build stuff, clean stuff and so on. But come Sunday and people don't really want to see the workers. They wish that the workers would become invisible. In fact, if you ask me, workers living in segregated dorms is a bit more than a matter of ensuring that they get low cost boarding. I believe it is to ensure that they are also kept "out of sight", as far as possible anyway.

[ukdesigner]

There’s a term they use, NIMBY - not in my backyard which exemplifies this perfectly for their attitude.

[Lisafuller]

There’s a term they use, NIMBY - not in my backyard which exemplifies this perfectly for their attitude.

Yup. This kind of mentality is toxic.