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PR Approval Probability 2022

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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truthhurts1
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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by truthhurts1 » Thu, 29 Sep 2022 3:59 pm

Gandalfthegrey wrote:
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
Sharing our PR approval details, hopefully it gives some hope and details to others. I have been thankful for all the inputs on the forum.

Race - Indian,EP holders
Family - Couple with 2 kids (girl 4, boy 1; both born in Singapore, elder one attends local childcare)
Primarily applicant - myself, 36. Medical device/healthcare logistics, basic 180k++
I have regular investment in SRS. I am actively involved in community service etc, but I didn't include anything specific in the application
Wife - Sales in IT, basic 100k++, both working in Singapore since 2015

In Singapore since 2015, first application was in 2017-18 which was rejected. This was second attempt

Applied in Oct 2021
Approved in Sep 2022

Happy to share any advice or questions.

Congratulations !!

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Wd40
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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by Wd40 » Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:39 pm

Gandalfthegrey wrote:
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
Sharing our PR approval details, hopefully it gives some hope and details to others. I have been thankful for all the inputs on the forum.

Race - Indian,EP holders
Family - Couple with 2 kids (girl 4, boy 1; both born in Singapore, elder one attends local childcare)
Primarily applicant - myself, 36. Medical device/healthcare logistics, basic 180k++
I have regular investment in SRS. I am actively involved in community service etc, but I didn't include anything specific in the application
Wife - Sales in IT, basic 100k++, both working in Singapore since 2015

In Singapore since 2015, first application was in 2017-18 which was rejected. This was second attempt

Applied in Oct 2021
Approved in Sep 2022

Happy to share any advice or questions.
Congratulations!
@smoulder I think you were asking if Indian high achievers only get PR, well yes, look here.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Fri, 30 Sep 2022 3:35 am

Gandalfthegrey wrote:
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
Sharing our PR approval details, hopefully it gives some hope and details to others. I have been thankful for all the inputs on the forum.

Race - Indian,EP holders
Family - Couple with 2 kids (girl 4, boy 1; both born in Singapore, elder one attends local childcare)
Primarily applicant - myself, 36. Medical device/healthcare logistics, basic 180k++
I have regular investment in SRS. I am actively involved in community service etc, but I didn't include anything specific in the application
Wife - Sales in IT, basic 100k++, both working in Singapore since 2015

In Singapore since 2015, first application was in 2017-18 which was rejected. This was second attempt

Applied in Oct 2021
Approved in Sep 2022

Happy to share any advice or questions.
Congrats!

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by smoulder » Fri, 30 Sep 2022 9:57 am

Wd40 wrote:
Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:39 pm
Gandalfthegrey wrote:
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
Sharing our PR approval details, hopefully it gives some hope and details to others. I have been thankful for all the inputs on the forum.

Race - Indian,EP holders
Family - Couple with 2 kids (girl 4, boy 1; both born in Singapore, elder one attends local childcare)
Primarily applicant - myself, 36. Medical device/healthcare logistics, basic 180k++
I have regular investment in SRS. I am actively involved in community service etc, but I didn't include anything specific in the application
Wife - Sales in IT, basic 100k++, both working in Singapore since 2015

In Singapore since 2015, first application was in 2017-18 which was rejected. This was second attempt

Applied in Oct 2021
Approved in Sep 2022

Happy to share any advice or questions.
Congratulations!
@smoulder I think you were asking if Indian high achievers only get PR, well yes, look here.
OK I'm a bit confused now.

I thought under 250k for an individuals salary, while not a small amount, is certainly not in the high achiever range. At least when you consider that there are Indians here who are at ED and MD levels in banks who tip the scales at approximately half a million per year - those are the high achievers who they do not give PRs to that easily.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by singaporeflyer » Fri, 30 Sep 2022 10:23 am

Wd40 wrote:
Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:39 pm
Gandalfthegrey wrote:
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
Sharing our PR approval details, hopefully it gives some hope and details to others. I have been thankful for all the inputs on the forum.

Race - Indian,EP holders
Family - Couple with 2 kids (girl 4, boy 1; both born in Singapore, elder one attends local childcare)
Primarily applicant - myself, 36. Medical device/healthcare logistics, basic 180k++
I have regular investment in SRS. I am actively involved in community service etc, but I didn't include anything specific in the application
Wife - Sales in IT, basic 100k++, both working in Singapore since 2015

In Singapore since 2015, first application was in 2017-18 which was rejected. This was second attempt

Applied in Oct 2021
Approved in Sep 2022

Happy to share any advice or questions.
Congratulations!
@smoulder I think you were asking if Indian high achievers only get PR, well yes, look here.
Salary is one of the factors and not the main factor/only factor for deciding indian applicants. I got my PR when my salary was slightly more than average and SC when my salary was still 4 digits per month.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by smoulder » Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:40 am

singaporeflyer wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 10:23 am
Wd40 wrote:
Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:39 pm
Gandalfthegrey wrote:
Sun, 25 Sep 2022 1:23 pm
Sharing our PR approval details, hopefully it gives some hope and details to others. I have been thankful for all the inputs on the forum.

Race - Indian,EP holders
Family - Couple with 2 kids (girl 4, boy 1; both born in Singapore, elder one attends local childcare)
Primarily applicant - myself, 36. Medical device/healthcare logistics, basic 180k++
I have regular investment in SRS. I am actively involved in community service etc, but I didn't include anything specific in the application
Wife - Sales in IT, basic 100k++, both working in Singapore since 2015

In Singapore since 2015, first application was in 2017-18 which was rejected. This was second attempt

Applied in Oct 2021
Approved in Sep 2022

Happy to share any advice or questions.
Congratulations!
@smoulder I think you were asking if Indian high achievers only get PR, well yes, look here.
Salary is one of the factors and not the main factor/only factor for deciding indian applicants. I got my PR when my salary was slightly more than average and SC when my salary was still 4 digits per month.
Exactly. I think the main factor these days is integration as measured by whether you are of a certain nationality or ethnicity or whether you are in a stable marriage to a local.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by Wd40 » Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:01 pm

smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:40 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 10:23 am
Wd40 wrote:
Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:39 pm


Congratulations!
@smoulder I think you were asking if Indian high achievers only get PR, well yes, look here.
Salary is one of the factors and not the main factor/only factor for deciding indian applicants. I got my PR when my salary was slightly more than average and SC when my salary was still 4 digits per month.
Exactly. I think the main factor these days is integration as measured by whether you are of a certain nationality or ethnicity or whether you are in a stable marriage to a local.
Yes, but still they are high achiever Indians who are getting. I have seen low salary people from the prefered race get it. So if integration was a big factor, we should have seen average achievers from the non prefered race also get PRs approved. But that hasnt been the case. So high achievement seems a necessary condition for the non prefered race.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by smoulder » Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:49 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:01 pm
smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:40 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 10:23 am


Salary is one of the factors and not the main factor/only factor for deciding indian applicants. I got my PR when my salary was slightly more than average and SC when my salary was still 4 digits per month.
Exactly. I think the main factor these days is integration as measured by whether you are of a certain nationality or ethnicity or whether you are in a stable marriage to a local.
Yes, but still they are high achiever Indians who are getting. I have seen low salary people from the prefered race get it. So if integration was a big factor, we should have seen average achievers from the non prefered race also get PRs approved. But that hasnt been the case. So high achievement seems a necessary condition for the non prefered race.
Off the top of my head, there have been a few Indians who have been mentioned here who were far from high achievers and they were granted PRs - some were Malaysians ("integration factor") and others were married to Singaporeans (also likely to be the "integration factor"). Obviously they can't find enough Indians who are "integrated" (in their apparent definition) so therefore they have to give it to others who tick enough of other boxes. But they don't seem to like giving PR to the super high achievers (guys earning approximately 0.5 million).

At least the above is the way I read it. No one knows for sure because they don't publish it.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by Wd40 » Sat, 01 Oct 2022 7:45 pm

smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:49 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:01 pm
smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 11:40 am

Exactly. I think the main factor these days is integration as measured by whether you are of a certain nationality or ethnicity or whether you are in a stable marriage to a local.
Yes, but still they are high achiever Indians who are getting. I have seen low salary people from the prefered race get it. So if integration was a big factor, we should have seen average achievers from the non prefered race also get PRs approved. But that hasnt been the case. So high achievement seems a necessary condition for the non prefered race.
Off the top of my head, there have been a few Indians who have been mentioned here who were far from high achievers and they were granted PRs - some were Malaysians ("integration factor") and others were married to Singaporeans (also likely to be the "integration factor"). Obviously they can't find enough Indians who are "integrated" (in their apparent definition) so therefore they have to give it to others who tick enough of other boxes. But they don't seem to like giving PR to the super high achievers (guys earning approximately 0.5 million).

At least the above is the way I read it. No one knows for sure because they don't publish it.
I think we need to seperate out people who have family ties here, by way of marriage or otherwise, from integration. They are different things and not the same thing. If you have family ties,with Singaporean, I would just put it in a different bucket altogether and not even evaluate with the same criteria.

So taking that out, there aren't many ways to prove integration. We are not allowed to submit any document that prove it. We could be daily going to a food court and eat with a lot of locals and have a lot of local friends, but that is never going to come through in evidences to support the application.

So then what does that leave us with?

I know couple of people who have been successful have mentioned they invested in SRS, but think about who invests in SRS? Only people who are in the 15% and above tax bracket and below that you dont save taxes. So that tells you they are high achievers earning in the 150-180ks salary range.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by singaporeflyer » Sat, 01 Oct 2022 9:01 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Sat, 01 Oct 2022 7:45 pm
smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:49 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:01 pm


Yes, but still they are high achiever Indians who are getting. I have seen low salary people from the prefered race get it. So if integration was a big factor, we should have seen average achievers from the non prefered race also get PRs approved. But that hasnt been the case. So high achievement seems a necessary condition for the non prefered race.
Off the top of my head, there have been a few Indians who have been mentioned here who were far from high achievers and they were granted PRs - some were Malaysians ("integration factor") and others were married to Singaporeans (also likely to be the "integration factor"). Obviously they can't find enough Indians who are "integrated" (in their apparent definition) so therefore they have to give it to others who tick enough of other boxes. But they don't seem to like giving PR to the super high achievers (guys earning approximately 0.5 million).

At least the above is the way I read it. No one knows for sure because they don't publish it.
I think we need to seperate out people who have family ties here, by way of marriage or otherwise, from integration. They are different things and not the same thing. If you have family ties,with Singaporean, I would just put it in a different bucket altogether and not even evaluate with the same criteria.

So taking that out, there aren't many ways to prove integration. We are not allowed to submit any document that prove it. We could be daily going to a food court and eat with a lot of locals and have a lot of local friends, but that is never going to come through in evidences to support the application.

So then what does that leave us with?

I know couple of people who have been successful have mentioned they invested in SRS, but think about who invests in SRS? Only people who are in the 15% and above tax bracket and below that you dont save taxes. So that tells you they are high achievers earning in the 150-180ks salary range.
SRS is surely not a factor for granting PR. One can easily pay a 5% penalty and get the amount out anytime. Or as a foreigner after a minimum 10 years holding period

15% tax slab starts from > 120k pa. I don't think this would fit under high earners. I would say those earning more than 200k as high earners. Also looks we are mixing earners Vs achievers

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by smoulder » Sat, 01 Oct 2022 9:15 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Sat, 01 Oct 2022 7:45 pm
smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:49 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:01 pm


Yes, but still they are high achiever Indians who are getting. I have seen low salary people from the prefered race get it. So if integration was a big factor, we should have seen average achievers from the non prefered race also get PRs approved. But that hasnt been the case. So high achievement seems a necessary condition for the non prefered race.
Off the top of my head, there have been a few Indians who have been mentioned here who were far from high achievers and they were granted PRs - some were Malaysians ("integration factor") and others were married to Singaporeans (also likely to be the "integration factor"). Obviously they can't find enough Indians who are "integrated" (in their apparent definition) so therefore they have to give it to others who tick enough of other boxes. But they don't seem to like giving PR to the super high achievers (guys earning approximately 0.5 million).

At least the above is the way I read it. No one knows for sure because they don't publish it.
I think we need to seperate out people who have family ties here, by way of marriage or otherwise, from integration. They are different things and not the same thing. If you have family ties,with Singaporean, I would just put it in a different bucket altogether and not even evaluate with the same criteria.

So taking that out, there aren't many ways to prove integration. We are not allowed to submit any document that prove it. We could be daily going to a food court and eat with a lot of locals and have a lot of local friends, but that is never going to come through in evidences to support the application.

So then what does that leave us with?

I know couple of people who have been successful have mentioned they invested in SRS, but think about who invests in SRS? Only people who are in the 15% and above tax bracket and below that you dont save taxes. So that tells you they are high achievers earning in the 150-180ks salary range.
Don't know - I fail to understand your logic on this matter. Having family ties is very much a part of integration. They are NOT different things.

To your point that there is no way to prove integration - not many ways that an ICA officer can figure that out, it's true. The only 2 ways that I can think of where they can keep it reasonably objective are Malaysian vs non - Malaysian and family ties.

It's hardly a secret that the general public opinion of Indians is that they don't mix well - so yes, it fits perfectly with the observation that a large number of Indians getting PR are those with family ties or they are Malaysians.

Finally, in my own case, I hardly consider myself a high achiever. Yes, my role is somewhat niche and my salary when I got PR about 3 years ago was in roughly the range you mentioned. However, I still don't consider it super high - it's just kind of average. I believe the major reason why I got my PR was because my wife is a citizen (I didn't apply under family ties).

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by MOCHS » Sat, 01 Oct 2022 10:02 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Sep 2022 4:01 pm
So if integration was a big factor, we should have seen average achievers from the non prefered race also get PRs approved. But that hasnt been the case.
You have to understand the forum is already biased in the first place.Those who are rejected will be more vocal and post here. Those who are accepted have already got what they wanted and don’t come here to share what is their profile. I’m sure there are average achievers from MIO race who got PR.

Just a couple of days ago I did read in this forum about an Indian staff who works in a coffeeshop for less than $2K a month who has PR.

My husband from Others was unemployed when he got PR. An Indian researcher I know earning $5K a month isn’t married to SC but to an Iranian-Indian, both got PR together on first try. I know she has intentions to become a citizen. She said her friends with similar profiles all got rejected and she was expecting a rejection too but was surprised by the PR approval. ICA is mysterious.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by smoulder » Sun, 02 Oct 2022 2:59 am

MOCHS, just to clarify, the story about the Indian coffee shop staff - I posted that.

It was meant to highlight that there was a time when it was relatively easy to get PR. That changed apparently sometime in the latter half of the noughties. I don't think that guy I met would have had a chance in hell in the present day.

But yes, I agree, in general the ICA works in mysterious ways - no one really knows exactly what criteria they give importance to. We can only hazard a guess after reading more than a few anecdotes and trying to find patterns in them.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by Wd40 » Sun, 02 Oct 2022 6:04 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 02 Oct 2022 2:59 am
MOCHS, just to clarify, the story about the Indian coffee shop staff - I posted that.

It was meant to highlight that there was a time when it was relatively easy to get PR. That changed apparently sometime in the latter half of the noughties. I don't think that guy I met would have had a chance in hell in the present day.

But yes, I agree, in general the ICA works in mysterious ways - no one really knows exactly what criteria they give importance to. We can only hazard a guess after reading more than a few anecdotes and trying to find patterns in them.
If we look at Australia's immigration system, it is based on the skill shortages, so you will have people of different skills white collar and blue collar come in.

In Singapore, blue collar is outsourced to cheap labour from South Asia and probably Myanmar. So mostly PR is given to white collar. Within that because of the race competition, only the highest achievers in the MIO race get PR, so think about the society that is going to be created, after 30 something years, if these high achievers and their kids manage to stay. I just feel when you are taking in citizens, you want people from all walks of life.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2022

Post by MOCHS » Sun, 02 Oct 2022 6:35 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Sun, 02 Oct 2022 6:04 pm

So mostly PR is given to white collar.



only the highest achievers in the MIO race get PR

Where are you getting this info from? Got any data to back up or just via anecdotes & observations from friends and colleagues? Anecdotes are not statistically significant as your social circle is already skewed towards a certain demographic in the first place.

Your coffeeshop aunties & uncles are still getting PR. (Some) Foreigner brides married to blue collar SCs are still getting my PR. My non-expat & average-skilled ang moh husband also got PR.

Of course ICA knows how to keep the balance in accepting PRs/SCs. FB co-founder Eduardo Severin & Hai Di Lao boss got PRs but there are also plenty of high income earners who have been rejected for PR, just look at the people posting on this forum.

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