PR approval chances 2022

[sundaymorningstaple]

Go down to Shenton Way and ask any 'C' level executive in the Finance Industry or the equivalent in the IT industry and see what they say and ask them how many times they've been rejected for PR. People at those salary levels are plums in the industry and depending on some other variables they are very likely to be poached by competitors with sign-on bonuses of 25~100k along with a better title/position. These are what the newest pass is going to try to address in order to keep these people here. Have a read and enlighten yourself.....

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo ... ng-2906656

[singaporeflyer]

You are talking about a completely different case. 150k salary is not even close to 350-400k.

Right! 350K, while impressive can be seen as a flight risk in the eyes of the ICA.

Sorry for the blur-ness - how does a high salary / IRAS return translate into "flight risk" ?

People with such high salaries are paid that much mainly because of their experience/expertise and this makes it easier for them to also find jobs in other countries like Aus, Nz, Canada, US, etc and move away from SG. Considering this and also some of the past patterns from history, ICA would be more careful in granting PR to such highly paid profiles.

There used to be time long long ago where high salary was considered as because of expert talent and hence were easily getting PR. Now, things have changed a lot in the last 10 years. Things tightened up gradually from 2009.

[sailtraveller]

Go down to Shenton Way and ask any 'C' level executive in the Finance Industry or the equivalent in the IT industry and see what they say and ask them how many times they've been rejected for PR. People at those salary levels are plums in the industry and depending on some other variables they are very likely to be poached by competitors with sign-on bonuses of 25~100k along with a better title/position. These are what the newest pass is going to try to address in order to keep these people here. Have a read and enlighten yourself.....

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo ... ng-2906656

What I meant is - if someone is on 400+k .. I would think twice about leaving Singapore if I was on PR vs on EP - even if there's a big financial incentive. EP gives you no roots and no stability - you can't even have a few months break in between jobs (I don't even know who is actually able to get PEP ...), and are fully dependent on your company keeping you in employment. So EP is your flight risk.
Expecting someone to stay on an EP in SG for 15 yrs ... to me is a bit much. But I'm sure it's demand and offer.

EP pretty much doesn't allow unpaid LOA. A condition of EP (and that's why there's split between basic and variable salary, for sales or similar, who might be on incentive plans and the like) is that the employee won't be paid less than what was in the application (for basic salary). Obviously there's some flexibility, but in essence you can't even take 2 months unpaid leave on EP, as companies see that as potential compliance breach with the WP requirements.

[sailtraveller]

Right! 350K, while impressive can be seen as a flight risk in the eyes of the ICA.

Sorry for the blur-ness - how does a high salary / IRAS return translate into "flight risk" ?

People with such high salaries are paid that much mainly because of their experience/expertise and this makes it easier for them to also find jobs in other countries like Aus, Nz, Canada, US, etc and move away from SG. Considering this and also some of the past patterns from history, ICA would be more careful in granting PR to such highly paid profiles.

There used to be time long long ago where high salary was considered as because of expert talent and hence were easily getting PR. Now, things have changed a lot in the last 10 years. Things tightened up gradually from 2009.

Nope - still doesn't make sense - if they're high earners, those are the people that add the most to Singapore's income tax revenue - if someone might leave or might not leave - I'd rather give them PR and hoping it will incentivize to continue paying taxes in SG on such income...
Even though Singapore is a low tax country - it is still structured so that the few on high income subsidize the lower income fascia. 80% of income tax revenue is paid by people >180k/yr salary, as per latest stats. So I think it's wrong to penalize high earners - it might not mean it should give them a million points in PR applications, but it shouldn't be neutral or negative either.
Anyhow - could probably talk about such things 'til the cows come home.

[MOCHS]

High income was never a criteria for PR. If that was the case, your coffeeshop uncle/auntie would have zero chance.

PR is for those who are going to sink roots here, not for those who will jet off at the next opportunity. Yes, you must be able to support yourself but earning 6 digits is a bonus… And most of the time these people are staying in expat enclaves, not really integrating into SG. How is that considered assimilating?

[sailtraveller]

High income was never a criteria for PR. If that was the case, your coffeeshop uncle/auntie would have zero chance.

PR is for those who are going to sink roots here, not for those who will jet off at the next opportunity. Yes, you must be able to support yourself but earning 6 digits is a bonus… And most of the time these people are staying in expat enclaves, not really integrating into SG. How is that considered assimilating?

100% agree that it should be that way. And integration should be #1.
I just don't get how ...
a) just because they're malaysians a lot of my wife's kakis all get PR first chance on 4k salary after 6-18 months - 3 of them already moved back to MY after less than 3yrs - wasted PRs
b) just because I'm ang moh - I speak bahasa melayu; singlish; only eat/cook local food - very good at cooking peranakan; shop at the wet market; eat at hawkers; recycle and lots of environmentalism; chinese-malaysian wife; have zero ang moh friends - only locals or malaysians; don't live in a fancy condo in river valley. I got rejected for PRs many times being 7yrs in SG (and as MY seems to be so important, >10 yrs between SG and MY .. as I was in MY earlier)
And yes, every time over the years welcoming MY friends moving over .. staying .. getting PR .. and even moving back .. while I've been here all along - and still getting rejected - it's painful. And there will be a limit in how much integration I'm willing to do locally - where my right of abode is loosely linked to a job at a company, and I might lose that right at any time. Chicken and egg ?

why ? Because just selecting the box that says nationality=Malaysia and race=Chinese - doesn't mean people will stay and doesn't mean they will integrate (MY ppl hang out often with other MY as well ... SG is not = MY as much as people say, culturally - perhaps SG = Johor...)

I 100% agree that integration should be the most important factor in a PR application evaluation, I just fail to see how the current forms are able to capture that.

[MOCHS]

Culturally, M’sian Chinese are similar to SG Chinese compared to Indonesian or PRC Chinese and M’sian Chinese do assimilate better here, provided they did study here in SG for years.

If you Google the yearly “Population in Brief”, you’ll already see a high percentage of PR are given to those within South-East Asia. Even the minister said so in parliament that most PRs are from “geographically close neighbours”.

The answer to your question is marry a local/PR. It gives a higher chance via family ties scheme but of course I do not encourage marriage of convenience.

My ang moh husband was lucky to get his on the first try under my sponsorship and I was actually expecting a rejection. Though I do wonder if his previous job of travelling all over SG helped, he went to places in SG with places/roads I never heard of.

[malcontent]

Having been here during a major influx of random mainland Chinese in the 2000’s, I can definitely see why Malaysian Chinese are highly preferred. Nothing against mainlanders, but a large majority are unable to assimilate well here, and most that I knew back then either went back to China or migrated to Australia or Canada. Malaysians on the other hand, they can assimilate almost spontaneously here, I’ve seen it time and time again. My former boss was Malaysian Chinese, and I’ve got two Malaysian Chinese reporting to me now. They have all become or are in the process of becoming Singaporeans, like peas in a pod.

[sailtraveller]

Having been here during a major influx of random mainland Chinese in the 2000’s, I can definitely see why Malaysian Chinese are highly preferred. Nothing against mainlanders, but a large majority are unable to assimilate well here, and most that I knew back then either went back to China or migrated to Australia or Canada. Malaysians on the other hand, they can assimilate almost spontaneously here, I’ve seen it time and time again. My former boss was Malaysian Chinese, and I’ve got two Malaysian Chinese reporting to me now. They have all become or are in the process of becoming Singaporeans, like peas in a pod.

Or maybe that's just what you see because the majority of PR are given to Malaysian Chinese ?
Unless the PRCs you were talking about were all given PR.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Go down to Shenton Way and ask any 'C' level executive in the Finance Industry or the equivalent in the IT industry and see what they say and ask them how many times they've been rejected for PR. People at those salary levels are plums in the industry and depending on some other variables they are very likely to be poached by competitors with sign-on bonuses of 25~100k along with a better title/position. These are what the newest pass is going to try to address in order to keep these people here. Have a read and enlighten yourself.....

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapo ... ng-2906656

What I meant is - if someone is on 400+k .. I would think twice about leaving Singapore if I was on PR vs on EP - even if there's a big financial incentive. EP gives you no roots and no stability - you can't even have a few months break in between jobs (I don't even know who is actually able to get PEP ...), and are fully dependent on your company keeping you in employment. So EP is your flight risk.
Expecting someone to stay on an EP in SG for 15 yrs ... to me is a bit much. But I'm sure it's demand and offer.

To a person earning 400+K PR is no different than the EP. Other than the renewal. Major competitor in another country wants to open a new AsiaPac office and need a C level employee with his expertise, you offer your potential candidate a $50K sign on bonus, and $100K additional package and the odds are the PR will take it as fast as the EP holder would. After all, if the timing is right he could stay on his REP for 3 years and come back to Sg with two years left and still manage to get his REP renewed. Or if he finds out he like the new position for the time being, he can give up his PR. Keep his condo and rent it out. That is no issue. The government sees these people as flight risks and needs something new that will hopefully give them more reason to stay as they actually make poor PRs as PR is a stepping stone to SGC. The PR could be given to somebody who will actually contribute to the country. (Income Taxes are not considered as contributing to the country's economy which is their definition of contributing to the country. Buying property is only investing for personal gain. On the other hand company startups that employ SGCs is look upon favorably as contributing to the economy of the country.
\

[singaporeflyer]

Sorry for the blur-ness - how does a high salary / IRAS return translate into "flight risk" ?

People with such high salaries are paid that much mainly because of their experience/expertise and this makes it easier for them to also find jobs in other countries like Aus, Nz, Canada, US, etc and move away from SG. Considering this and also some of the past patterns from history, ICA would be more careful in granting PR to such highly paid profiles.

There used to be time long long ago where high salary was considered as because of expert talent and hence were easily getting PR. Now, things have changed a lot in the last 10 years. Things tightened up gradually from 2009.

Nope - still doesn't make sense - if they're high earners, those are the people that add the most to Singapore's income tax revenue - if someone might leave or might not leave - I'd rather give them PR and hoping it will incentivize to continue paying taxes in SG on such income...
Even though Singapore is a low tax country - it is still structured so that the few on high income subsidize the lower income fascia. 80% of income tax revenue is paid by people >180k/yr salary, as per latest stats. So I think it's wrong to penalize high earners - it might not mean it should give them a million points in PR applications, but it shouldn't be neutral or negative either.
Anyhow - could probably talk about such things 'til the cows come home.

It shouldnt be neutral or negative either ? - So it has to be positive for you. If so, why do a lot of high earners still get rejected? We just say based on what we have been hearing purely based on history. But if you want to disagree, its ok. We don't lose anything

[malcontent]

Having been here during a major influx of random mainland Chinese in the 2000’s, I can definitely see why Malaysian Chinese are highly preferred. Nothing against mainlanders, but a large majority are unable to assimilate well here, and most that I knew back then either went back to China or migrated to Australia or Canada. Malaysians on the other hand, they can assimilate almost spontaneously here, I’ve seen it time and time again. My former boss was Malaysian Chinese, and I’ve got two Malaysian Chinese reporting to me now. They have all become or are in the process of becoming Singaporeans, like peas in a pod.

Or maybe that's just what you see because the majority of PR are given to Malaysian Chinese ?
Unless the PRCs you were talking about were all given PR.

I have worked with so many PRCs and Malaysian Chinese… before my Malaysian Chinese boss I had a PRC lady boss. She earned her MBA from NUS and got PR after graduating. She was earning a nice 5-figure salary, owned an HDB and her kids were about to enroll in P1. They had actually put in their SC application, but after a lot of consideration withdrew their application and moved to Perth. Partly it was the education system that drove that decision, but also the opportunity to own a landed home and have a more relaxed lifestyle in general. She is just one example, there are many more… I think the difference is that Malaysians have family across the border, and that makes them feel rooted. What I’ve noticed is that when a PRC marries a Singaporean or Malaysian, that changes the game — they become far more willing to assimilate and sink roots.

[singaporeflyer]

Hello all

I also would like to ask for your advice on my PR chance. Thank you so much!

Nationality: China
Age: 32
Race: Chinese
Gender: Male
Marital status: Married
Applied for: with my wife
Education: bachelor degree of computer science in china (not good, not bad)
Length of stay in SG: 1.5 years for me , and 10 month for my wife
Pass type: EP
Occupation: Software engineer
Salary: ~S$190k base + S$100k bonus for me and ~S$70k for my wife
Work experience: 7 years for me & 2 years for my wife

Will it be better for me to wait another half year to apply for it?

Anything less than 3 to 4 years of work and stay In sg will be a likely rejection. Why is the rush ?

[truthhurts1]

High income was never a criteria for PR. If that was the case, your coffeeshop uncle/auntie would have zero chance.

PR is for those who are going to sink roots here, not for those who will jet off at the next opportunity. Yes, you must be able to support yourself but earning 6 digits is a bonus… And most of the time these people are staying in expat enclaves, not really integrating into SG. How is that considered assimilating?

Talking about expat enclaves I have been here for 9+ years and have mostly locals and Malaysian chinese that I can call as my friends.. not a single indian friend or acquaintance made in the last 9 years and I rarely see them in my field.. how will the ICA know this unless they really interview you and make decisions just based on some papers and race? Waiting for my 4th PR rejection but question is how long to hold on working on an EP!!

[sundaymorningstaple]

The quantity of field agents working in ICA would surprise you. Probably at least equal to the numbers of field agents in the IRAS or MOM. If they find you interesting you can bet they know your company and it's make up as they have access to all of Singapore's databases including IRAS company tax records which would have all that data from their IR8A submissions.