Singapore Expats

PR approval chances 2022

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Lisafuller
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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:29 am

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 4:25 pm
sherlock101 wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 8:01 am
Thanks all. I have added further relevant information above. Look forward to your suggestions.
“Tech and consulting” is so generic. You didn’t provide your annual income either. “European” is also vague as well. Western Europe? Eastern Europe? List out your nationality.

If you want us to help, then you need to lay out your cards on the table instead of withholding information.
Agree, though knowing that he is in the others category offers enough information about his chances in that respect.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:30 am

sherlock101 wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 8:01 am
Thanks all. I have added further relevant information above. Look forward to your suggestions.
Still lots of information, what is your level of education? Annual income? These are all important questions that heavily influence your chances.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:33 am

sherlock101 wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 8:13 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 4:25 pm
sherlock101 wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 8:01 am
Thanks all. I have added further relevant information above. Look forward to your suggestions.
“Tech and consulting” is so generic. You didn’t provide your annual income either. “European” is also vague as well. Western Europe? Eastern Europe? List out your nationality.

If you want us to help, then you need to lay out your cards on the table instead of withholding information.
Don’t think it makes a significant difference whether I am Irish or Austrian.
You are missing the point of my question. I am not asking about my chances of PR conversion on an absolute basis. I have read this forum enough to form an independent and informed opinion myself (overall my situation has a low chance of conversion).
I am asking about the pros and cons of the 2 scenarios on a comparative basis. For example, some questions:
1. Would applying now significantly weaken the application compared to applying with a kid (as having a kid may demonstrate willingness to “integrate” in Singapore)?
2. On the flip side, are there significant monetary benefits (from the government) of delivering a kid when the parents have a PR?
3. Is it more or less guaranteed that a kid born to PR parents will get a PR later?
4. Does having a male kid significantly increase chances than having a female kid?
Singapore values families, so applying with a child does make a difference. As for 2, it is highly unlikely that you'll receive approval before your wife delivers, so don't expect to reap any benefits. 3, no. 4, slightly, because the boy can service ns whereas a girl cannot.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:34 am

lsuiug wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 11:04 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 26 Jan 2023 3:24 am
lsuiug wrote:
Thu, 19 Jan 2023 10:19 am
I read that appealing would need to be based on my circumstance at that point in time when I applied so even if my pay increases by 500 this year, it won’t be considered a change or even significant by that matter right? Does going to MP help? (Didn’t participate in volunteer sessions though)
I know this is hard to hear, but 500 is nothing. You would need a very significant set of changes for your application to be reconsidered so soon.
Hi, is an increase in 1.5-2k actually significant? Also, I heard of 1-2 cases that an MP's letter actually helped but may be because of their circumstances (One was married to a Singaporean and is Malaysian Chinese and the other is also married to a Singaporean but is Thai). Both are recent, just a few years back. Should I still shoot my shot on the second application 6 months later?
The significance of an increase depends on your starting point. If you start out earning 2K and have an increase of 2K then yes, it makes a difference. If you're making 20K then no, not really.

As for the MPs letter, for me to even see this working, you would have to have a deep and legitimate relationship with your MP. Attending a meet the people session and getting a guy who barely knows you to draft a superficial letter is worth nothing, it may even worsen your chances as it's seen as a disingenuous effort.
Last edited by Lisafuller on Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 12:36 am

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 10:56 pm
Nationality does make a difference. You’ll be surprised. If one is Ukrainian or Russian, be prepared for rejection on first try. You seem to be very secretive about your nationality.

1. It saves on application fee if you apply once compared to applying twice. Having a kid shows some willingness of sinking roots here.

2. If your wife becomes PR, there might be some medical subsidies if she gives birth in government hospitals. However, it is highly unlikely that the PR application will be approved before your wife gives birth. So, back to point 1, just save your application fee money and apply for the whole family at one shot. Also, if your company is generous with medical insurance in the first place, the savings from subsidies won’t be that much…

3. Nothing is guaranteed.

4. Having a male child means a potential soldier to serve mandatory NS so it is looked upon favorably. Think twice if you want your future son serving because absconding without the proper paperwork will cause a lot of trouble for your offspring. Whether male or female baby, SG wants the population boosted either way.
Right, and as a add-on to 2, it comes across kind of exploitative for this to even be a concern - what makes you deserve any subsidy when you've been a pr for mere days? (Assuming it's approved within 9 months which in itself is unlikely).

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:16 am

lsuiug wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 11:04 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 26 Jan 2023 3:24 am
lsuiug wrote:
Thu, 19 Jan 2023 10:19 am
I read that appealing would need to be based on my circumstance at that point in time when I applied so even if my pay increases by 500 this year, it won’t be considered a change or even significant by that matter right? Does going to MP help? (Didn’t participate in volunteer sessions though)
I know this is hard to hear, but 500 is nothing. You would need a very significant set of changes for your application to be reconsidered so soon.
Hi, is an increase in 1.5-2k actually significant? Also, I heard of 1-2 cases that an MP's letter actually helped but may be because of their circumstances (One was married to a Singaporean and is Malaysian Chinese and the other is also married to a Singaporean but is Thai). Both are recent, just a few years back. Should I still shoot my shot on the second application 6 months later?
1.5-2K surely ok.
MP's letter will not increase chances. They will just ask ICA to process as per their normal rules and conditions.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:38 pm

In the past I believe it's had some weight though (correct me if I'm wrong), though now it's pretty much meaningless.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by lsuiug » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:51 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:16 am
lsuiug wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 11:04 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 26 Jan 2023 3:24 am


I know this is hard to hear, but 500 is nothing. You would need a very significant set of changes for your application to be reconsidered so soon.
Hi, is an increase in 1.5-2k actually significant? Also, I heard of 1-2 cases that an MP's letter actually helped but may be because of their circumstances (One was married to a Singaporean and is Malaysian Chinese and the other is also married to a Singaporean but is Thai). Both are recent, just a few years back. Should I still shoot my shot on the second application 6 months later?
1.5-2K surely ok.
MP's letter will not increase chances. They will just ask ICA to process as per their normal rules and conditions.
If I applied the second time with an increase of 1.5k, do you think it will be likely for me to get it? Nothing else changes though...

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by lsuiug » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:52 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:38 pm
In the past I believe it's had some weight though (correct me if I'm wrong), though now it's pretty much meaningless.
Oh, but why has the rules changed now? Is it due to stricter immigration policies?

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 9:01 pm

lsuiug wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:51 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:16 am
lsuiug wrote:
Sun, 29 Jan 2023 11:04 pm


Hi, is an increase in 1.5-2k actually significant? Also, I heard of 1-2 cases that an MP's letter actually helped but may be because of their circumstances (One was married to a Singaporean and is Malaysian Chinese and the other is also married to a Singaporean but is Thai). Both are recent, just a few years back. Should I still shoot my shot on the second application 6 months later?
1.5-2K surely ok.
MP's letter will not increase chances. They will just ask ICA to process as per their normal rules and conditions.
If I applied the second time with an increase of 1.5k, do you think it will be likely for me to get it? Nothing else changes though...
Salary is not the only factor. If the applicant was rejected due to something basic missing and not salary, even if the applicant gets 5K hike, it may not help. They evaluate the applications holistically with a group of factors.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 9:12 pm

lsuiug wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:52 pm
Oh, but why has the rules changed now? Is it due to stricter immigration policies?
Quite sure MP letters never worked in the first place. SMS will have some insight into this.

It was volunteering that had some points in the past but it got abused to death by a certain nationality.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:11 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 9:12 pm
lsuiug wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:52 pm
Oh, but why has the rules changed now? Is it due to stricter immigration policies?
Quite sure MP letters never worked in the first place. SMS will have some insight into this.

It was volunteering that had some points in the past but it got abused to death by a certain nationality.
[rant]
I applied for PR once-it was rejected; appealed once-appeal rejected. Reapplied 5 years later and was called in for interview where I was put in a small room with two ICA officers and given the good cop, bad cop, routine (not really but did have two officers). I think the elder was the department Senior as he looked about as old as I am now (this was in 1995). After that interview I had my PR in two weeks after saying some things that would probably sealed my fate forever had it not been for my explanation which caused both their jaws to drop. That's another story. BUT. The younger officer eventually made it up the ministry ladder to #2 and I ran into him at a Xmas Luncheon at SICC about 10 years after that interview. He recognized me and walked over and re-interduced himself to me and to my wife and we had a nice chat. He told me he'd never had done an interview like mine with the frankness & candor I displayed there. Later he gave me some information about applying for PR and SGC that has stuck in my head ever since.

I applied for PR the first time (without the Internet and it's wealth of info today) using a local law firm. I also got a letter from my wife's MP and the first application was rejected. The appeal was done and also using a 2nd MP (we'd moved to another constituency between the two) so duly got another letter and it was subsequently rejected. The 2nd application 5 years later was made by my self without any agency or legal firm. He told me, at that Xmas party, that ICA looks sideways at applications that are done by agents & legal firms as they are doing nothing except being form fillers to fill out forms designed to be filled out by N level holders and ripping off scared applicants. When they get those from agencies and law firms they always ask themselves "what are they trying to hide" or is it a "tailor made application".

And the other thing is MPs have absolutely no power to do anything other than make up a form letter and enter people names on it. In fact, most are done by underlings and just signed by the MP (if they are lucky). Immigration is beholden to nobody as they, like immigration offices around the world, are a law unto themselves. I also saw that first hand when I shared an office with the US INS Officer here in Singapore in Int'l Plaza due to the resettlement program for the VN Boat People exodus from the 80s to early 90's (for me 1988-1991 when the program shut down).

Suspicion is the last thing a potential PR should want to create. But after 18 years on this board and thousands of appliers it would seem the average applicant would rather trust one of their own countrymen (who will burn the bridge before you get on it if they can - history here shows that) than a forum full of people who have successfully done all the trips and are trying our level best to continue to pay it forward.
[/rant]
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

Lisafuller
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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 Jan 2023 10:34 pm

lsuiug wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:52 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:38 pm
In the past I believe it's had some weight though (correct me if I'm wrong), though now it's pretty much meaningless.
Oh, but why has the rules changed now? Is it due to stricter immigration policies?
When these things get abused, they lose their use.

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by therat » Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:21 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:38 pm
In the past I believe it's had some weight though (correct me if I'm wrong), though now it's pretty much meaningless.
Dont think so.

A real life case

a Male Singaporean try to get PR or citizenship for his 1st born (boy). [The boy was born when Singaporean Father and Thai mother not marry; and was born in Thailand]
Their MP is PM Lee. He wrote letter during apply PR and citizenship. The 1st born still didnt get any of it. He was in student pass while his younger sibling are citizen (parent married after he born)

This come out in newspaper many many year back. might be 20 yrs back.

Actually the news come out is due to father got into an accident and dead. Reporter interview the family.
Wife is holding LTVP and 1st born under student pass. The other children who are citizen and too young. Wife worry, she and her 1st born might need to leave Singapore and no one take care the young.

Then PM Lee ask ICA to grant the 1st born PR or citizen which can let the wife continue to stay in Singapore to take care the family

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Re: PR approval chances 2022

Post by lsuiug » Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:35 am

therat wrote:
Tue, 31 Jan 2023 10:21 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 30 Jan 2023 8:38 pm
In the past I believe it's had some weight though (correct me if I'm wrong), though now it's pretty much meaningless.
Dont think so.

A real life case

a Male Singaporean try to get PR or citizenship for his 1st born (boy). [The boy was born when Singaporean Father and Thai mother not marry; and was born in Thailand]
Their MP is PM Lee. He wrote letter during apply PR and citizenship. The 1st born still didnt get any of it. He was in student pass while his younger sibling are citizen (parent married after he born)

This come out in newspaper many many year back. might be 20 yrs back.

Actually the news come out is due to father got into an accident and dead. Reporter interview the family.
Wife is holding LTVP and 1st born under student pass. The other children who are citizen and too young. Wife worry, she and her 1st born might need to leave Singapore and no one take care the young.

Then PM Lee ask ICA to grant the 1st born PR or citizen which can let the wife continue to stay in Singapore to take care the family
What happened in the end? Did she move back to Thailand or did the 1st born get PR/citizen?

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