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Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:04 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:45 am
Retired is a fairly new case of PR. Maybe SMS will be our test case?
There will be no issues for SMS as he has a SC spouse and being retired would not have any issue at all, even if he lives overseas and tries to renew his REP.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:06 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:04 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:45 am
Retired is a fairly new case of PR. Maybe SMS will be our test case?
There will be no issues for SMS as he has a SC spouse and being retired would not have any issue at all, even if he lives overseas and tries to renew his REP.
When my wife and daughter are up for their next REP renewal, they will be both be in the US for a couple of years by then… daughter will still be pursuing her degree, just over 21. Wife will have a green card and will be 4 months short of age 55.

I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?

My son and I will have no immigration status as we are currently on EP/DP, so that certainly won’t help.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:26 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:06 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:04 pm
PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:45 am
Retired is a fairly new case of PR. Maybe SMS will be our test case?
There will be no issues for SMS as he has a SC spouse and being retired would not have any issue at all, even if he lives overseas and tries to renew his REP.
When my wife and daughter are up for their next REP renewal, they will be both be in the US for a couple of years by then… daughter will still be pursuing her degree, just over 21. Wife will have a green card and will be 4 months short of age 55.

I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?

My son and I will have no immigration status as we are currently on EP/DP, so that certainly won’t help.
How long would she have been out of SG?
Will she be really working for a SG Pte company? CPF contribution will be still ongoing?
Cant really say retired? SG retirement age is 63+. Not surely 55.

Also when is the next renewal? if it is 3 years later, we cant predict what to do now.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:19 am

singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:26 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:06 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 12:04 pm


There will be no issues for SMS as he has a SC spouse and being retired would not have any issue at all, even if he lives overseas and tries to renew his REP.
When my wife and daughter are up for their next REP renewal, they will be both be in the US for a couple of years by then… daughter will still be pursuing her degree, just over 21. Wife will have a green card and will be 4 months short of age 55.

I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?

My son and I will have no immigration status as we are currently on EP/DP, so that certainly won’t help.
How long would she have been out of SG?
Will she be really working for a SG Pte company? CPF contribution will be still ongoing?
Cant really say retired? SG retirement age is 63+. Not surely 55.

Also when is the next renewal? if it is 3 years later, we cant predict what to do now.
About 2.5 years outside SG by that time.
It is her own SG Pte Ltd… could continue CPF.
She does not have any employees (I know hiring at least 5 x SGC employees helps).
Next renewal is > 3 years from now.
In this case, it seems better to keep working.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:43 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:19 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:26 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:06 pm


When my wife and daughter are up for their next REP renewal, they will be both be in the US for a couple of years by then… daughter will still be pursuing her degree, just over 21. Wife will have a green card and will be 4 months short of age 55.

I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?

My son and I will have no immigration status as we are currently on EP/DP, so that certainly won’t help.
How long would she have been out of SG?
Will she be really working for a SG Pte company? CPF contribution will be still ongoing?
Cant really say retired? SG retirement age is 63+. Not surely 55.

Also when is the next renewal? if it is 3 years later, we cant predict what to do now.
About 2.5 years outside SG by that time.
It is her own SG Pte Ltd… could continue CPF.
She does not have any employees (I know hiring at least 5 x SGC employees helps).
Next renewal is > 3 years from now.
In this case, it seems better to keep working.
She needs to work, pay tax and also CPF - if PR renewal is needed. 60% chance it will go through even though she will not be in SG for 2+ years.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:14 am

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:43 am
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:19 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:26 pm


How long would she have been out of SG?
Will she be really working for a SG Pte company? CPF contribution will be still ongoing?
Cant really say retired? SG retirement age is 63+. Not surely 55.

Also when is the next renewal? if it is 3 years later, we cant predict what to do now.
About 2.5 years outside SG by that time.
It is her own SG Pte Ltd… could continue CPF.
She does not have any employees (I know hiring at least 5 x SGC employees helps).
Next renewal is > 3 years from now.
In this case, it seems better to keep working.
She needs to work, pay tax and also CPF - if PR renewal is needed. 60% chance it will go through even though she will not be in SG for 2+ years.
So more like working remote from the US?

I was also thinking she could claim that her time in the US is being spent looking to expand business opportunities for her SG Pte Ltd, since the US is already a major export market. The SG Pte Ltd is basically a selling agent for Indonesian commodity exports.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:40 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:19 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:26 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:06 pm


When my wife and daughter are up for their next REP renewal, they will be both be in the US for a couple of years by then… daughter will still be pursuing her degree, just over 21. Wife will have a green card and will be 4 months short of age 55.

I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?

My son and I will have no immigration status as we are currently on EP/DP, so that certainly won’t help.
How long would she have been out of SG?
Will she be really working for a SG Pte company? CPF contribution will be still ongoing?
Cant really say retired? SG retirement age is 63+. Not surely 55.

Also when is the next renewal? if it is 3 years later, we cant predict what to do now.
About 2.5 years outside SG by that time.
It is her own SG Pte Ltd… could continue CPF.
She does not have any employees (I know hiring at least 5 x SGC employees helps).
Next renewal is > 3 years from now.
In this case, it seems better to keep working.
"I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?"
If they ask for more proof, what will you show. Better quote only real things.

If she is going to live and reside in US, why will she need to retain her PR in SG?

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 3:35 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:40 am
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:19 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Sun, 17 Apr 2022 7:26 pm


How long would she have been out of SG?
Will she be really working for a SG Pte company? CPF contribution will be still ongoing?
Cant really say retired? SG retirement age is 63+. Not surely 55.

Also when is the next renewal? if it is 3 years later, we cant predict what to do now.
About 2.5 years outside SG by that time.
It is her own SG Pte Ltd… could continue CPF.
She does not have any employees (I know hiring at least 5 x SGC employees helps).
Next renewal is > 3 years from now.
In this case, it seems better to keep working.
"I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?"
If they ask for more proof, what will you show. Better quote only real things.

If she is going to live and reside in US, why will she need to retain her PR in SG?
Good advice. She absolutely wants to develop new business opportunities, so who knows.

Why retain PR in SG?

Future right of abode. My wife has lived almost her entire life here, since primary school. She has a business, we have a home here, her parents and two sisters are also PR here.

I doubt Singapore would welcome an ex-PR who is only coming back to retire, would they? If she can keep her PR, I could presumably get an LTVP as well.

Obviously, it’s not the end of the world if we lose the right of abode here, but if we retire in Asia, Singapore would be preferred since we have both lived more than half of our lives here.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 5:16 pm

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 3:35 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 10:40 am
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 9:19 am


About 2.5 years outside SG by that time.
It is her own SG Pte Ltd… could continue CPF.
She does not have any employees (I know hiring at least 5 x SGC employees helps).
Next renewal is > 3 years from now.
In this case, it seems better to keep working.
"I wonder if she should claim to be working for her Singapore Pte Ltd company or claim to be retired? Maybe it won’t make a difference either way?"
If they ask for more proof, what will you show. Better quote only real things.

If she is going to live and reside in US, why will she need to retain her PR in SG?
Good advice. She absolutely wants to develop new business opportunities, so who knows.

Why retain PR in SG?

Future right of abode. My wife has lived almost her entire life here, since primary school. She has a business, we have a home here, her parents and two sisters are also PR here.

I doubt Singapore would welcome an ex-PR who is only coming back to retire, would they? If she can keep her PR, I could presumably get an LTVP as well.

Obviously, it’s not the end of the world if we lose the right of abode here, but if we retire in Asia, Singapore would be preferred since we have both lived more than half of our lives here.
If you are serious about SG, then she has to earn and live here. That would be ideal. Next ideal would be to earn here while being remote elsewhere, pay tax here, pay CPF.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 6:25 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 5:16 pm
If you are serious about SG, then she has to earn and live here. That would be ideal. Next ideal would be to earn here while being remote elsewhere, pay tax here, pay CPF.
The second option seems workable, although she won’t owe income taxes once she is no longer tax resident in SG.

The first option is like choosing allegiances, family or country — and she’s not even a citizen… but have to break with one or the other! If that happens, I will let her decide.

If the REP really can’t be renewed, she might just fly back to SG until it can be resolved. It won’t be the first time she’s had overcome such obstacles with the ICA.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 6:59 pm

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 6:25 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 5:16 pm
If you are serious about SG, then she has to earn and live here. That would be ideal. Next ideal would be to earn here while being remote elsewhere, pay tax here, pay CPF.
The second option seems workable, although she won’t owe income taxes once she is no longer tax resident in SG.

The first option is like choosing allegiances, family or country — and she’s not even a citizen… but have to break with one or the other! If that happens, I will let her decide.

If the REP really can’t be renewed, she might just fly back to SG until it can be resolved. It won’t be the first time she’s had overcome such obstacles with the ICA.
No taxes paid, no CPF paid and staying overseas - is a perfect case to surely have issue with REP renewal if PR was via PTS scheme.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 18 Apr 2022 11:21 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 6:59 pm
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 6:25 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 18 Apr 2022 5:16 pm
If you are serious about SG, then she has to earn and live here. That would be ideal. Next ideal would be to earn here while being remote elsewhere, pay tax here, pay CPF.
The second option seems workable, although she won’t owe income taxes once she is no longer tax resident in SG.

The first option is like choosing allegiances, family or country — and she’s not even a citizen… but have to break with one or the other! If that happens, I will let her decide.

If the REP really can’t be renewed, she might just fly back to SG until it can be resolved. It won’t be the first time she’s had overcome such obstacles with the ICA.
No taxes paid, no CPF paid and staying overseas - is a perfect case to surely have issue with REP renewal if PR was via PTS scheme.
2nd generation PR from GIP scheme, decades ago.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by sxsw » Tue, 19 Apr 2022 2:20 am

singaporeflyer wrote:
Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:32 pm
sxsw wrote:
Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:05 pm
Thanks for the honest advice. We have renewed REP once before and never lived abroad while having the PR. It seems 2-3 years max away, and being gainfully employed 1+ year before REP renewal, is the best approach.
Best approach is to live and work here 4-5 years out of every 5 years. Or in short be here in SG permanently.
Singapore company will be posting me / second me (on loan) abroad temporarily for 2-4 years depending on the project. I’ll ask my HR to write a letter confirming that I will be returning back to Singapore at the end of the assignment and to request to stay no longer than 2.5 years. I won’t have to reapply for REP until another 4 years. After all, Singapore is a hub and it’s unavoidable that some key regional staff may need to get posted overseas for business reasons to benefit the Singapore entity. Surely we have Singapore engineering project managers getting sent abroad a couple years to manage overseas capital projects with heavy Singapore investment? Will need to figure out the tax thing since by right we shouldn’t owe any tax working out of Singapore, but will continue to contribute CPF. This would be another benefit of citizenship, perhaps I need to apply for citizenship ASAP to give greater working / study abroad flexibility for me and family.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 19 Apr 2022 8:36 am

Yes SXSW, this is normal and perfectly acceptable which is why I get irritated when people say REP renewal is not possible overseas as it is never black and white.

You should continue to file an income tax statement of course but declare the income earned in Singapore as lower (basically deduct income for the days you are outside Singapore).

Make sure ICA are updated with your new residential and mail addresses as well during your posting.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Tue, 19 Apr 2022 8:39 am

sxsw wrote:
Tue, 19 Apr 2022 2:20 am
This would be another benefit of citizenship, perhaps I need to apply for citizenship ASAP to give greater working / study abroad flexibility for me and family.
Singapore citizenship requires a lot of sacrifice, not only will you be limited to living on this one small island with ultra high cost of living, but there is also the ever changing policy landscape — and you have to know the tax burden will increase in the future with the graying population.

You also must give up all privileges of your former citizenship, which can sometimes be more substantial than you realize. Even US citizenship with its seeming tax nightmares for those living abroad, really only bites if you make beaucoup bucks or have have a lot of unsheltered investment income. I see giving up son(s) for NS as more inconvenience than sacrifice, there is benefit from the experience.

One last point on study abroad flexibility, in our case, had I and my kids given up US citizenship, my kids would have to pay unsubsidized university tuition, which I estimate would cost a extra S$500k for both kids, just for a bachelor’s degree. Not only that, but we wouldn’t be able move there with our kids while they are studying — our family is a close knit one, and we all strongly prefer that.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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