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Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

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sxsw
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Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by sxsw » Thu, 07 Apr 2022 2:06 am

I am a PR and will be moving overseas for 4-5 years, taking the family along, including male son. We plan to return to SG - no issues or concerns with son doing NS.

1. What is the safest way to maintain PR while living abroad? Is setting up a co. that generates at least some revenue, has some PIC, paying myself monthly and contributing to CPF an ethical way to allow for REP renewal when the time comes?

2. Does maintaining property here (albeit rented out) and paying property tax help our REP renewal?

3. If REP is rejected, does this minimize the chance for future PR application for all family members?

4. If REP is rejected, will family members still be eligible for EP if they qualify on their own merits in the future - including our male son?

5. Will the chances be higher for REP approval if we have a bond for our son to return for NS?

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 09 Apr 2022 1:04 am

Do you understand what PR means? It stands for Permanent Residence. If you move out of the country for more than 2 consecutive years you stand the chance of not getting renewed. If you are gone for more than 3 years, you will lose the re'entry permit and if you are out of the country when that happens, you will lose your PR at the same time. However, if you make it back before the REP expires, you will be able to stay in Singapore, generally speaking, as long as you do not pass through Immigration gates for any reason. If you go to play golf for the day to Bintan, Batam, etc. or shopping in JB, without a valid re-entry permit before exiting the country you are telling ICA, by your actions, that you are giving up your PR. Elsewhere on this forum I've reinterated several times that 17 years ago didn't have a valid REP for 15 straight months. But I was between jobs and I never attempted to leave Singapore for any reason. As soon as I found employment I renewed my REP without issue.

1. There is no SAFE way to maintain PR if you are out of the country for more than 3 years. Doesn't matter if you own a company, have 3 condos, 2 cars, whatever, PR is residency. if you are not physically present in Sg you are NOT resident so you will lose your PR. E.O.S.

2. No, rented out or empty. makes no difference. Half the high end condos in Singapore are owned by Indonesian Chinese as a way to move their money out of Indonesia. None have residency/PR. IRAS will like you, but ICA doesn't give a damn.

3. If all were PR, yes, it 'can' impact future EP applications. Although it occasionally happens, usually if that individual had a skillset that the government needs and wants, but NOT if it's a male and due to loss of PR NS is not done. But it's rare when it does happen. you cannot plan on it as it would be akin to planning to fail. Because of falling birth rates, there are less available males for NS. Allowing males to come and go as they please, would set precedences that the government cannot afford, therefore they are NOT very flexible, and rightly so. They cannot survive like the US does with a 100% volunteer armed forces. (since 1975) They have to force all males to do NS in order to ensure that their neighbours stay on there own side of the borders.

4. Family member who are NOT PR will be eligible for EP if they qualify on their own merits but if the were males and avoided NS because you forced them to lose their PR. They they will likely be rejected due to the avoidance of NS by you actions. Good way to have you son learn to hate you if he happened to have a girlfriend here.

5. You cannot have a bond for your if he loses his PR as he is then stuck between a rock & a hard place. No way to join NS unless SGC or PR. If he loses PR due to insufficient time in the country thanks to the parent. He isn't eligible for NS. Having a bond is one thing (required by CMPB/Mindef) but the REP is required by ICA. Normally regardless of the reason, the rejection notice that they will receive will look something like this.....
EPRejectionduetogivingupPR_zps80d1fb5d.jpg
To be quite honest, You are asking for a family disaster which could cause a family rift if your ruse doesn't work. How long have you/family been PRs and how old is your son?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Wed, 13 Apr 2022 1:27 am

I will be faced with a similar situation in the coming years. REP renewal is not easy if you are living overseas. AFAIK, the only way is to provide clear, compelling evidence of genuine, concrete plans to return… and even then, expect limited duration renewal, if at all.

You have to be prepared for the worst. Consider just how far you’ll go to keep your PR, because once renewal is denied, you can try to appeal, but if that is also denied… you’re effectively left with one option to keep your PR — fly back before the REP expires. Is it really worth it? Only you can decide.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by PNGMK » Wed, 13 Apr 2022 8:01 am

To add a wrinkle PR under family ties does not appear to be quite so onerous. I have renewed PR overseas twice.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Wed, 13 Apr 2022 11:45 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 8:01 am
To add a wrinkle PR under family ties does not appear to be quite so onerous. I have renewed PR overseas twice.
That is a totally different scenario. The strictness is mainly for PR obtained via the PTS route. Family times is mostly relaxed as long as the sponsor is strongly related to SG.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:08 am

What about someone who originally got PR as a child via family ties to parents… after the child is grown up and has a family of their own, does the original tie back to their sponsors still considered? I assume they would be on their own, fending for themselves for the REP renewal?
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:46 am

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:08 am
What about someone who originally got PR as a child via family ties to parents… after the child is grown up and has a family of their own, does the original tie back to their sponsors still considered? I assume they would be on their own, fending for themselves for the REP renewal?
After 21 years of age assessed on his own merits for renewal.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58 am

singaporeflyer wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:46 am
malcontent wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:08 am
What about someone who originally got PR as a child via family ties to parents… after the child is grown up and has a family of their own, does the original tie back to their sponsors still considered? I assume they would be on their own, fending for themselves for the REP renewal?
After 21 years of age assessed on his own merits for renewal.
I guess a PR over 21 who is studying abroad would probably get limited renewals tied to their expected graduation or course completion date?
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Thu, 14 Apr 2022 3:34 am

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:46 am
malcontent wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:08 am
What about someone who originally got PR as a child via family ties to parents… after the child is grown up and has a family of their own, does the original tie back to their sponsors still considered? I assume they would be on their own, fending for themselves for the REP renewal?
After 21 years of age assessed on his own merits for renewal.
I guess a PR over 21 who is studying abroad would probably get limited renewals tied to their expected graduation or course completion date?
Likely yes

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by mystic_river » Thu, 14 Apr 2022 5:13 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:58 am
singaporeflyer wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:46 am
malcontent wrote:
Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:08 am
What about someone who originally got PR as a child via family ties to parents… after the child is grown up and has a family of their own, does the original tie back to their sponsors still considered? I assume they would be on their own, fending for themselves for the REP renewal?
After 21 years of age assessed on his own merits for renewal.
I guess a PR over 21 who is studying abroad would probably get limited renewals tied to their expected graduation or course completion date?
Correct. I was a 2nd gen PR. After I turned 21 my PR was renewed for only 1 year because i was still studying. After that 1 year I had already graduated but my PR was still renewed for only a year because I was still looking for a job (I.e unemployed). Once I found a job my PR got renewed for 5 years.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by sxsw » Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:05 pm

Thanks for the honest advice. We have renewed REP once before and never lived abroad while having the PR. It seems 2-3 years max away, and being gainfully employed 1+ year before REP renewal, is the best approach.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by singaporeflyer » Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:32 pm

sxsw wrote:
Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:05 pm
Thanks for the honest advice. We have renewed REP once before and never lived abroad while having the PR. It seems 2-3 years max away, and being gainfully employed 1+ year before REP renewal, is the best approach.
Best approach is to live and work here 4-5 years out of every 5 years. Or in short be here in SG permanently.

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by PNGMK » Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:45 pm

Actually there are possible exceptions if you can show your posting away is for the benefit of the Singapore govt or a locally owned entity. It is not just open shut.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:12 am

PNGMK wrote:
Sat, 16 Apr 2022 1:45 pm
Actually there are possible exceptions if you can show your posting away is for the benefit of the Singapore govt or a locally owned entity. It is not just open shut.
I think the concern is that if too many stragglers are allowed keep PR, it could create a big problem if they all decide to return at the same time, given the limited employment and housing capacity — there isn’t enough slack to cater for this unknown variability.

In this context, I wonder if they take a different stance if the overseas PR is 55 or older and states “Retired” as their occupation? That will be our case in the coming years.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Maintaining PR abroad; re apply for PR after REP rejected

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 17 Apr 2022 10:45 am

Retired is a fairly new case of PR. Maybe SMS will be our test case?
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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