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Mass exodus

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local lad
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Re: Mass exodus

Post by local lad » Wed, 13 Apr 2022 9:34 am

Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:18 am
I just feel there is all around mediocrity at workplaces here, which makes it easy to survive here if you are even average. I have worked with people in the US, Western Europe and Eastern Europe and the quality there is top notch. Average people like me have no chance over there. That is why I am stuck here. Kind of bird in hand situation. Too lazy to upskill and compete with the best in US or Europe.

I mean in Europe and US, most innovative companies have already moved to remote working. There all that matters is output. While here managers are just eager to see the asses of their employees back in office. What you do doesnt matter, it is all about posturing here.
Isnt it dangerous to be mediocre since the garmen is tightening the EP/SP quota come 2023?

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Wd40 » Wed, 13 Apr 2022 9:38 am

local lad wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 9:34 am
Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:18 am
I just feel there is all around mediocrity at workplaces here, which makes it easy to survive here if you are even average. I have worked with people in the US, Western Europe and Eastern Europe and the quality there is top notch. Average people like me have no chance over there. That is why I am stuck here. Kind of bird in hand situation. Too lazy to upskill and compete with the best in US or Europe.

I mean in Europe and US, most innovative companies have already moved to remote working. There all that matters is output. While here managers are just eager to see the asses of their employees back in office. What you do doesnt matter, it is all about posturing here.
Isnt it dangerous to be mediocre since the garmen is tightening the EP/SP quota come 2023?
By tightening, you are only increasing the cost of acquiring the same mediocre people. Singapore is not attractive because managements of most companies are old school and do not foster innovation, so you will only get mediocre people here.

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malcontent
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Re: Mass exodus

Post by malcontent » Wed, 13 Apr 2022 9:55 am

Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 9:38 am
local lad wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 9:34 am
Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:18 am
I just feel there is all around mediocrity at workplaces here, which makes it easy to survive here if you are even average. I have worked with people in the US, Western Europe and Eastern Europe and the quality there is top notch. Average people like me have no chance over there. That is why I am stuck here. Kind of bird in hand situation. Too lazy to upskill and compete with the best in US or Europe.

I mean in Europe and US, most innovative companies have already moved to remote working. There all that matters is output. While here managers are just eager to see the asses of their employees back in office. What you do doesnt matter, it is all about posturing here.
Isnt it dangerous to be mediocre since the garmen is tightening the EP/SP quota come 2023?
By tightening, you are only increasing the cost of acquiring the same mediocre people. Singapore is not attractive because managements of most companies are old school and do not foster innovation, so you will only get mediocre people here.
Not only that, but when you apply ethic quotas, it further limits the pool of potential talent and dumbs things down even more.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by the observer » Fri, 27 May 2022 3:31 pm

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/05/27/people- ... going.html




Most people leaving, said Pei, are headed to same place: Singapore.

“Everyone’s going to Singapore,” said Pei, especially those working in finance, law and recruitment, she said.



When the old goes, the new comes.

And I suppose hongkies love buying real estate. Another round of realty inflation?

Resale prices? Fed hike dampener vs hk demand?

Rental inflation definitely/for sure.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by sp786 » Sat, 28 May 2022 11:43 pm

Well for the the chinese ethnicity SG welcomes them with open arms but for others there are lot of ifs and buts especially “south asians” who they call out as below average, fake degree mongers but deep inside truly tremble at their hunger to grow and ability to sacrifice their personal time in lieu of work and growth, but still most of their unis earn a good chunk through south asian admits, most of their works are done hook or cook by south asian labours - white or blue collar.
.
A poor south asian would give full 8 hours of productivity here than a rich and entitled local who always thinks everything is not enough for him or her. The discipline is also lacking and it has become worse after covid which is exposed the ugly side of a lot of things.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 3:53 am

smoulder wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 7:47 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 6:53 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 05 Apr 2022 5:25 pm
It's not future tense. It has already been happening.
I dont know man, the whole world has a lot of sh!thole countries with very talented people in them and Singapore will always by attractive to those people. I see no problem with Singapore attracting talent. Especially look at hong kong what a crappy place it has become. What alternative do you have in Asia now? I wish someone told me this when I came to SG in 2009, I would have begged borrowed stealed and bought a condo then.
Singapore is quite attractive to many still, most notably all those sh!thole countries you reference. I don't think that's the issue. Rather, it seems that people are being shut out.

Which is why, these stats are coming out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... utive-year
Exactly. When contrasted against the other countries in south east Asia, and even Asia, there are plenty of reasons for talents to prize singapore over everywhere else.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 3:54 am

Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 10:56 pm
smoulder wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 7:47 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 6:53 pm


I dont know man, the whole world has a lot of sh!thole countries with very talented people in them and Singapore will always by attractive to those people. I see no problem with Singapore attracting talent. Especially look at hong kong what a crappy place it has become. What alternative do you have in Asia now? I wish someone told me this when I came to SG in 2009, I would have begged borrowed stealed and bought a condo then.
Singapore is quite attractive to many still, most notably all those sh!thole countries you reference. I don't think that's the issue. Rather, it seems that people are being shut out.

Which is why, these stats are coming out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... utive-year
Already rents are going through the roof. I have colleagues in my office renting Melville park 2bedroom for 2.5k and the owner expects 3.5k upon renewal and he has 20 people viewing the house and people jumping on top of each other to secure the house. So, I think Singapore doesnt even have the capacity right now for any surge of expats. The construction shortfall, Malaysian workers preferring to rent in SG and young Singaporeans moving out of their parents house to their own inorder to work from home, all these factor have caused a massive housing shortage. It is pretty ugly out there.
Exactly, rental prices nowadays are absolutely bonkers, so I can’t imagine that everybody’s able to keep up with this crazy price surge. At some point, we will hit our capacity for new expats, and it seems it is now.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 3:55 am

malcontent wrote:
Sat, 09 Apr 2022 12:30 am
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 10:56 pm
smoulder wrote:
Fri, 08 Apr 2022 7:47 pm

Singapore is quite attractive to many still, most notably all those sh!thole countries you reference. I don't think that's the issue. Rather, it seems that people are being shut out.

Which is why, these stats are coming out.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... utive-year
Already rents are going through the roof. I have colleagues in my office renting Melville park 2bedroom for 2.5k and the owner expects 3.5k upon renewal and he has 20 people viewing the house and people jumping on top of each other to secure the house. So, I think Singapore doesnt even have the capacity right now for any surge of expats. The construction shortfall, Malaysian workers preferring to rent in SG and young Singaporeans moving out of their parents house to their own inorder to work from home, all these factor have caused a massive housing shortage. It is pretty ugly out there.
Well said - with so many working from home, more space is needed to cope. My colleagues overseas can’t understand why it’s such a challenge here when they have spare bedrooms, an extra study or even a full fledged home office!

I’m constantly getting kicked out from one room to the next.
Right! It doesn’t need to be said that land here is incredibly scarce, and if there’s anything the pandemic has taught us it is the importance of having ample space at home to both live and work.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 3:56 am

PNGMK wrote:
Mon, 11 Apr 2022 9:04 am
There is zero reason for Europeans or Americans to move this short sighted country run by anal power hungry idiots.

Having just come back from Europe this place is the shits.
Right, and seeing the way the government has handled the pandemic has been incredibly frustrating. I appreciate their caution, but at some point it felt like they were just testing the extent of their power.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 3:58 am

jwoods1864 wrote:
Mon, 11 Apr 2022 9:43 am
PNGMK wrote:There is zero reason for Europeans or Americans to move this short sighted country run by anal power hungry idiots.

Having just come back from Europe this place is the shits.
While a lot of the West was going to shit in 2020 I was quite thankful to be in Singapore. However, I think the tides turned from early 2021!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah! I was happy to be here in 2020 when cases everywhere but sg were soaring. Now, can’t help but envy those living in more open nations; we’ve lost our momentum.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 3:59 am

tiktok wrote:
Mon, 11 Apr 2022 2:24 pm
Reasons to dislike Singapore:
- Soft dictatorship
- Nepotism, greed and cronyism in the government
- Nanny state, surveillance, excessive rules
- Too hot, no seasons
- Expensive alcohol and tobacco
- Expensive cars
- Expensive real estate, or simply forbidden from buying
- Crap natural environment, hiking, beaches etc.
- No arts scene
- Education system produces robots
- Opaque and racist PR policy
- Insignificant history and culture
- Decades behind with recycling
- Cannabis is illegal, severe penalties for drug use
- Capital punishment

Reasons to like Singapore:
- Food
- Pretty women
- Low income taxes (but you pay in other ways)
Excellent post, I especially agree with the points about capital punishment, robotic education system, seasons and cost of living. Living here is so damn expensive, and for what?!

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 4:01 am

malcontent wrote:
Tue, 12 Apr 2022 1:43 am
I may be in the minority, but the weather is my top plus here. I grew up in a place that had up to 5 months of freezing weather each year. I still appreciate the endless summer, even after 27 years.

My biggest minus… it’s not just cost of living, but what you get for your money here… it can feel like a slap in the face! I’ve come to accept paying through the nose even when it’s absurd and makes no sense, but I still find it insulting.
You sound like my dad, for a 6 foot man you would expect him to dread the heat. He hates the humidity, but he hates the cold more.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 30 May 2022 4:04 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:46 am
Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 13 Apr 2022 12:18 am
I just feel there is all around mediocrity at workplaces here, which makes it easy to survive here if you are even average. I have worked with people in the US, Western Europe and Eastern Europe and the quality there is top notch. Average people like me have no chance over there. That is why I am stuck here. Kind of bird in hand situation. Too lazy to upskill and compete with the best in US or Europe.

I mean in Europe and US, most innovative companies have already moved to remote working. There all that matters is output. While here managers are just eager to see the asses of their employees back in office. What you do doesnt matter, it is all about posturing here.
Yep, I have had to retrain some local employees here who thought it was necessary to put on the “I’m so busy” routine. I told them, there are times when you really will be busy, so don’t feel guilty about the times you are not — knock off early, enjoy yourself while you can, because there will be times you have to put in extra hours because of a genuine need. I also told them, if you are too busy all the time, it is a real concern and we will need to take a closer look at your work to figure out how things can be done differently to improve efficiency. I also lead by example and do the same thing with my time. I can definitely see the results, they are happier in their job, more focused on results and feel like they can be honest with me because my expectations are clear.
If only more bosses could be like you, I feel like in Singapore there is a busyness paradox where you spend all your time keeping busy trying to look busy, but in the process accomplish nothing.

I am optimistic about the next generation though, my daughter is interning at a local media firm and to my surprise shared with me that they are very strict about not working past work hours there and instead spending personal time truly relaxing, which I think is so important and such a positive precedent to set.

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by the observer » Mon, 30 May 2022 11:22 am

sp786 wrote:
Sat, 28 May 2022 11:43 pm
Well for the the chinese ethnicity SG welcomes them with open arms but for others there are lot of ifs and buts especially “south asians” who they call out as below average, fake degree mongers but deep inside truly tremble at their hunger to grow and ability to sacrifice their personal time in lieu of work and growth, but still most of their unis earn a good chunk through south asian admits, most of their works are done hook or cook by south asian labours - white or blue collar.
.
A poor south asian would give full 8 hours of productivity here than a rich and entitled local who always thinks everything is not enough for him or her. The discipline is also lacking and it has become worse after covid which is exposed the ugly side of a lot of things.
There’s open arms in the UK after re-skillling oneself with a NUS/NTU postgrad.

IIT not in the list tho.
Although there’s 2 unis on the list from Sg, 2 from HK, 2 from China.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -list-2021

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Re: Mass exodus

Post by moonshineQ » Fri, 05 Aug 2022 3:39 pm

Pros
clean, hawker food is cheap, ntuc is cheap
Cons
Car, housing and no greenery

Lucky Msia is open!

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