Don't let your overseas drivers license expire!

[PNGMK]

This comes up every time we plan to head back to the US. My wife inadvertently let her TX drivers license lapse and now we do not have anyone in our family with an American drives license. This isn't too much of a problem if you're renting a car and just visiting but as we were thinking of buying a car this trip for our eventual return (basically an ex hertz rental car and just keeping it) it turns out that having a US license is pretty important.

I've managed to keep my Aussie license (which includes difficult classes such as semi-trailers) going - even through Covid 19 as it is valid for 5 years and registered at my mothers address and they allow renewal via post but I understand from my wife that the main issue was that she did not move the registered address from a rental apartment and hence never got a renewal notice.

To re-instate her license is hugely difficult now because of the post 9-11 ID regulations. Fortunately- before her TX license expired - she managed to convert it to a Singapore license.

So, move your registered address to one where you will be able to get the renewal notice and secondly put into your calendar a reminder to renew it as least one month before it expires!

Note that technically an Australia can only hold a drivers license in the state he/she is legally resident but it's never really been raised as a point of concern. I do use my Singapore driver's license when I drive in my home state as a work around...

[bro75]

I always try to renew my Philippine drivers license but I will let it expire this year as I am not yet able to go back for renewal which has to be done in person. Fortunately, if you renew it within a few months of expiration (i am not sure how long is the grace period), you can still renew it by just paying an extra penalty.

[malcontent]

This comes up every time we plan to head back to the US. My wife inadvertently let her TX drivers license lapse and now we do not have anyone in our family with an American drives license. This isn't too much of a problem if you're renting a car and just visiting but as we were thinking of buying a car this trip for our eventual return (basically an ex hertz rental car and just keeping it) it turns out that having a US license is pretty important.

I've managed to keep my Aussie license (which includes difficult classes such as semi-trailers) going - even through Covid 19 as it is valid for 5 years and registered at my mothers address and they allow renewal via post but I understand from my wife that the main issue was that she did not move the registered address from a rental apartment and hence never got a renewal notice.

To re-instate her license is hugely difficult now because of the post 9-11 ID regulations. Fortunately- before her TX license expired - she managed to convert it to a Singapore license.

So, move your registered address to one where you will be able to get the renewal notice and secondly put into your calendar a reminder to renew it as least one month before it expires!

Note that technically an Australia can only hold a drivers license in the state he/she is legally resident but it's never really been raised as a point of concern. I do use my Singapore driver's license when I drive in my home state as a work around...

Sage advice. It’s even harder if you are no longer a citizen or resident of that country. I have managed to keep renewing my wife’s Michigan DL since we left in 1996 up to now. We changed her address to my parent’s address long ago, so that hasn’t changed. The last time she had to renew in person they just asked for her SSN, which fortunately she remembers from when we lived there. As long as she keeps renewing it, the 9-11 ID stuff can be waived in the state of Michigan.

As for myself I thought it wouldn’t matter and let my DL expire. Big mistake. The last time we went back in 2019, I tried to renew and they treated me like a new driver. Under Michigan law, a Singapore DL is not good enough for direct conversion, so I had to do a 45 minute on-the-road driving test with a driving instructor, and pass a written test before they would renew my license. Had I not let it expire beyond 4 years, I could have avoided that. Each state is different though.

The other thing to keep up is credit history. I had done that myself but not for my wife. Over the past 8 years or so I embarked on a journey to reestablish her credit history. First I tried applying for a card that didn’t require good credit, but was denied. I then added her as a supplemental user on my card, let that incubate for 3 months… then reapplied under her name — that worked and she got a $500 credit limit. Within 12 months it was upped to $1,000. After 24 months, several thousand, and by 36 months it was a 5-figure limit. In the US they don’t verify your employer or income, it’s all based on making timely payments. Today, just one of her cards has a $35k limit and she has a credit score > 800. Each time before we go back I apply for at least one new card for each of us and get a nice sign up bonus, cutting around $1k off our trip cost.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Suffice it to say, I made the same mistake when I came here. My US Louisiana Driver's license expired about 8 months in to my 2nd 12 month hitch here but by that time I'd remarried locally and had a bun in the oven so didn't bother to make a trip back home or renew it (in fact, I don't remember even getting a renewal notice as I never had a forwarding address from the US to here. I did manage to stay on the Louisiana Voter Rolls though. So, as noted by Mal, to go back and get a new license they don't care. You virtually have to start from scratch. I even had a year long course in driving while I was in High School prior to turning 16 in the state of MD. I had to chuckle at what Mal used for establish credit for his wife. I did much the same thing the 7th year after my bankruptcy back in the early 70's after Hurricane's Agnes and Cynthia (the 2nd hurricane was a redhead though). LOL.. Mal has seen the two CC I've been carrying since 1979 primarily because they show a member since date of that year as a reminder of Why you look after your credit and financial standings ALWAYS. That was the year I finally reestablished a viable credit rating after the bankruptcy in 1972~73.

[sundaymorningstaple]

This is a very import time sensitive topic so I've made it a sticky as it shouldn't be lost to newcomers who, like us, didn't pay too much attention to it and the rule changes in our home countries. - mod

[newsingaporeuser]

You say you "can only hold a drivers license in the state he/she is legally resident". So you renew your drivers licence to an address that is not technically your residence (i.e. renew in Australia but actually live in Singapore)?

But what happens if you haven't had a need to drive in Singapore until a decade after you move here and thus didn't convert your licence and now you have the need but you've been renewing your driving licence?
In the latest form that you need to submit (https://form.gov.sg/63d22456f2bd6c0012319c64) it states: "The foreign driving licence must be obtained prior to the first issuance of the applicant's pass ... If the driving licence class is obtained after the issuance of the pass, the applicant is required to meet the conversion criteria to provide documentary proof stated in point 11 (a) and (b)." 11 a and b refer to Singapore citizens.

[malcontent]

You say you "can only hold a drivers license in the state he/she is legally resident". So you renew your drivers licence to an address that is not technically your residence (i.e. renew in Australia but actually live in Singapore)?

Yes… it’s complicated.

Legal residence refers to a person's true, fixed, principal, and permanent home, to which that person intends to return and remain even though currently residing elsewhere. Most countries like the U.S. assume that you’ll eventually return from abroad. Voter registration, even while overseas, requires you to have a legal address in the U.S. even if you don’t. They will tell you to use your last known address in the U.S. (good luck to anyone who never lived there).

Many rules and regulations do not properly consider situations where their citizenry live abroad. For example, the U.S. often has exceptions for military posted abroad, but everyone else is assumed to live stateside… and the rules are in place to disallow having a license in more than one state at a time, which only makes sense if you live in another state, not another country.

But what happens if you haven't had a need to drive in Singapore until a decade after you move here and thus didn't convert your licence and now you have the need but you've been renewing your driving licence?
In the latest form that you need to submit (https://form.gov.sg/63d22456f2bd6c0012319c64) it states: "The foreign driving licence must be obtained prior to the first issuance of the applicant's pass ... If the driving licence class is obtained after the issuance of the pass, the applicant is required to meet the conversion criteria to provide documentary proof stated in point 11 (a) and (b)." 11 a and b refer to Singapore citizens.

My wife didn’t convert her U.S. license to Singapore until at least 5 years after we arrived. They accepted it, because it was still valid and was issued prior to her moving to Singapore. Too bad for her though, she had to pass the written test. I converted mine in 1997, before they required that (my Singapore DL has a test pass date on the back, but I never took it).

[malcontent]

While in the U.S. during this past month of September, I signed a lease on an apartment, bought a car and got it registered and insured. This was all done over the course of two weeks.

Not easy, but had we not had good credit scores & US driver’s licenses, this would have been vastly more difficult, if not impossible. The other thing that was critically important is showing several months of US bank/brokerage statements with a substantial liquid balance throughout. We wouldn’t have gotten the apartment without that.

A couple more things:

I happened to have a blank personal check in my wallet from our U.S. joint account, and while totally unplanned, this turned out to be super important when we bought the car.

I happen to be a member of a co-op shared branch credit union (SDFCU), and that was also super important when we had to produce a cashier’s check in short order for our first month’s rent and deposit. After a few calls, I found a shared branch of another credit union nearby that would issue the check, easy peasy.

We moved into the apartment just 3 days after arriving and drove away in our new (nearly new) car just 2 weeks after arriving - - I had rented a car for the month, but returned it early, only paying for what I used.

One last thing, I’ve had a free U.S. phone number in the form of Google Voice for over the past decade in Singapore, but it was super helpful to have a U.S. number ready to use in all kinds of situations. In the first week alone, I must have used it a few dozen times. We eventually got T-Mobile lines (dual SIM using eSIM) but my Google Number is always there, along with my Singapore number too.

[frank776]

Part of it is letting your overseas driver’s license expire, yeah, it’s a real hassle. I get the frustration because life intervenes and suddenly you’re juggling all these rules and regulations but I get it. Malcontent’s story is a good reminder of how important it is to keep things like your address and license current if you're doing a big move or return. He had that U.S. number and credit score really, and they are little things like that that really make all the difference.

[malcontent]

Since my EP will be cancelled at year end, I’m also applying the same principles to my connections in Singapore. I plan to keep 3 cards going:

1. Trust credit card - this doubles as an ATM card, has no annual fee and no foreign transaction fees (no calling to waive the annual fee) and I can still use it overseas and get a good exchange rate.

2. UOB Singtel Visa - no annual fee by paying my cheapo $12/mo Singtel plan, which I will keep after I leave. Also, because my employer insisted on UOB for my SRS, I need this card for continued online access (can’t touch until 2030).

3. DBS debit card - this is just for when we’re back in SG and I need ATM access to my main checking account (a legacy account with no fees).

I just renewed my Singapore DL through 2029, although they might cancel it in Singapore, the physical license will remain valid outside Singapore. I assume if I were to get on an LTVP in the future, I could reactivate without issue.

One thing I don’t know is whether my Singpass will be revoked after my EP is cancelled. Anyone have any experience?

[PNGMK]

Singpass will disappear with EP cancellation. Andrew had that happen. You need to use your wife's Singpass maybe

[smoulder]

Since my EP will be cancelled at year end, I’m also applying the same principles to my connections in Singapore. I plan to keep 3 cards going:

1. Trust credit card - this doubles as an ATM card, has no annual fee and no foreign transaction fees (no calling to waive the annual fee) and I can still use it overseas and get a good exchange rate.

2. UOB Singtel Visa - no annual fee by paying my cheapo $12/mo Singtel plan, which I will keep after I leave. Also, because my employer insisted on UOB for my SRS, I need this card for continued online access (can’t touch until 2030).

3. DBS debit card - this is just for when we’re back in SG and I need ATM access to my main checking account (a legacy account with no fees).

I just renewed my Singapore DL through 2029, although they might cancel it in Singapore, the physical license will remain valid outside Singapore. I assume if I were to get on an LTVP in the future, I could reactivate without issue.

One thing I don’t know is whether my Singpass will be revoked after my EP is cancelled. Anyone have any experience?

How are you planning to keep your wife's PR going? My wife has a friend (MC) who moved to Australia - they cancelled her PR a few years later. If I'm not wrong, it was not the "no REP renewal" thing but full PR cancellation along with CPF closure.

[Wd40]

@malcontent did you sell your condo? I thought your wife is Singaporean and you have roots here. Your post is as if you are the typical EP holder, I thought you were more than that(not you but your family as a whole).

[malcontent]

My wife plans to keep her PR going as long as possible by renewing her REP. We know there is a risk of rejection or shorter duration given. She plans to retain ties to Singapore in terms of her business. Her genuine intention for being in the US is to accompany our children who are studying there. However, we could probably come up with another purpose, such as expanding her Pte Ltd by increasing exports to the US (she already exports to the US now). CPF isn’t substantial enough to worry about liquidating, so that’s not a consideration.

I’ve been on an EP for more than half of my life. Both of our kids started out on DP’s. I did apply for PR once but it was rejected, and after that, the incentives for me to reapply fizzled out (with my employer, I needed to get PR in the first 5 years to make it worth my while… beyond that, I’d be on the losing end, financially). Our first child got PR just before P1 registration, but a year later the rules changed and there was no longer any point in getting PR for our second. So half my family is PR and the other half isn’t.

We didn’t intentionally plan any of this, it was like nature taking its course — everyone is dealt with certain cards in life, and everyone should play their hand as best they can. In our case, US citizenship was the only option for our kids at birth. If living in Singapore has taught me anything over the years, it is to take advantage of whatever opportunities you have in this life, and that is exactly what we are doing.

[malcontent]

@malcontent did you sell your condo? I thought your wife is Singaporean and you have roots here. Your post is as if you are the typical EP holder, I thought you were more than that(not you but your family as a whole).

We would sell it we could get the right price… my wife wants about 20-30% above current market prices, any takers? LOL.

In the meantime, we’re looking to rent it out.