New EP Point Based System 2023 onwards. Thoughts?

[MOCHS]

There are a couple of HDBs with gated systems too. One in Punggol Central and City View @ Boon Keng near ICA. Dawson & Pinnacle@Duxton don’t have these features despite their million dollar resale HDBs. IMO all the gated security in condos & HDB are a joke since people can easily follow the person in front. I had to do home visits for my previous job, went via taxi into all sorts of condos (old ones, new ones, ones where the lift brings you straight up into the house) without ever being stopped.

You want security, try some government buildings where you have to trade in your IC for a security pass, the internet browsing on some Govt computers are very rudimentary, you cannot stick your flashdrive into any computer or the alarm will sound, and no phones either. Some govt places don’t even allow foreigners to intern/work there.

[Wd40]

Great points, I think we just had a different definition of expat in mind. I was envisioning the European or American expats that have their big houses, International Schools and cars paid for by their companies.

This is an antiquated definition, expats Vs FT. I remember when I came here a decade ago this definition was already getting outdated as expat packages became very fewer and far in between and also FT became a bad word, so it just dropped out of the lingo. Now I believe we can just use the term expat to everyone who is here on a long term pass and not related to a Singaporean or PR.

[thismyvoice]

Then even though we live in HDB here it is open we leave our main doors open and have no fear, there is no need of any security. I laugh at the crazy levels of condo security, at the main gate and then at the tower gate, lol, what for? It feels as if condo dwellers live in a prison and visitors have so much protocol to follow just to visit them. HDBs are so open and welcoming. Then there are free public parks, cheap and nice public swimming pools, awesome public transport, clean and polution free air, drinking water directly from the tap etc. In India, even to step out and buy something, you will have to take your car or a motorbike out, you cannot just walk, there are no footpaths, you have to cross the road without zebra crossing, just run across and hope no vehicle hits you.

I had always assumed that private apartments were required to hire security guards in order to boost their employment numbers here.

Many in the security sector are from Malaysia. I heard of "expats", of various skin tones, who trespass to use free pools in adjacent condos. I used to stay in a condo opposite a popular shopping complex. The security will periodically remove bicycles illegally parked inside the premise. I guess they trust the condominium security, and the covered parking.

[rajagainstthemachine]

Then the question would have to be where the expert was moving from, if they were moving from somewhere where the quality of life was considerably lower, then living small here would not take much of an adjustment as it would arguably still present a better quality of life than living in the home country. If, on the other hand, said expat was moving from a country in which he enjoyed a very high quality of life, living in a small house and having to take public transport and eat in all the time would certainly come as a surprise.

It is more nuanced. There is this materialistic quality of life and then the intangible quality of life, if I may call so. India is great for materialistic quality of life, you can buy an awesome car and a nice bunglow for a fraction of the cost in Singapore. You can have a maid, a driver, home delivery of everything for very cheap etc.

However, on the intangible quality of life side, Singapore trumps most countries. Women feel so empowered here, they can walk alone in the night, travel in public transport without any fear of molestation. In India, my wife doesnt know how to drive, so she would always depend on me or she will have to use Uber and there is constant fear of safety. Same for my daughter. Here in Singapore, my daughter takes the public bus, 5 bus stops from my house to her school, she is so independent here.

Then even though we live in HDB here it is open we leave our main doors open and have no fear, there is no need of any security. I laugh at the crazy levels of condo security, at the main gate and then at the tower gate, lol, what for? It feels as if condo dwellers live in a prison and visitors have so much protocol to follow just to visit them. HDBs are so open and welcoming. Then there are free public parks, cheap and nice public swimming pools, awesome public transport, clean and polution free air, drinking water directly from the tap etc. In India, even to step out and buy something, you will have to take your car or a motorbike out, you cannot just walk, there are no footpaths, you have to cross the road without zebra crossing, just run across and hope no vehicle hits you.

So I believe that when you are in Rome do what the Romans do. Singapore is not great for materialistic quality of life, so it is would be stupid for an expat to come here and try to replicate their overseas materialistic quality of life here. It is going to be crazy expensive, just dont come here at all. However, if you can, appreciate the intangible quality of life that Singapore offers and make good use of it while you are here. When you go back to India, you will anyways have to spend money to make up for what the state doesnt provide you. So go there, then buy a car and a nice bunglow, keep a maid and driver also if you want and enjoy the materialistic quality of life. Atleast when you go back you feel some upside even though you give up on a lot of intangible aspects of quality of life.

i don't know what you are smoking WD40, but Singapore is as materialistic as it gets. everything here is about $$. again regarding the safety aspect, one cannot continue to live a bubble wrapped existence forever. various countries have different levels of danger for everyone, some a bit more than the others and its important for every human being to understand the feeling of fear and danger and take action or preventive measures accordingly, its supposed to be part of the human nature.

1. clean cheap parks - parks in India are clean and cheap too, depends on where you go. there are also amazing national wildlife parks which you can drive to and see animals in the wild as opposed to seeing them in zoos here

2. swimming pools - nearly every new condo in India is offering it these days, but not a necessity for me personally.

3. One can't compare public transport, clean water etc. of a large subcontinent with billions of people with a country with 3m citizens, there are parts of India where the water is good and transport is decent and there are parts where it completely sucks. take Kerala for e.g. you have commuter trains which travel the length and breadth of the state providing really good efficient service. if you compare that with trains in Mumbai then its a different story. but yes agree with you on the efficient public transport system here, i don't understand why locals complain so much about it though.

4. if you want to live stress free in India, consider tier 2/tier 3 cities, they offer a better quality of life than Singapore,

5. to me Singapore is great to start a business, incorporate a company with minimal hassle, great as a travel hub, diverse eating options, great mix of multicultural races and efficiency in getting thing done.

[malcontent]

Then the question would have to be where the expert was moving from, if they were moving from somewhere where the quality of life was considerably lower, then living small here would not take much of an adjustment as it would arguably still present a better quality of life than living in the home country. If, on the other hand, said expat was moving from a country in which he enjoyed a very high quality of life, living in a small house and having to take public transport and eat in all the time would certainly come as a surprise.

It is more nuanced. There is this materialistic quality of life and then the intangible quality of life, if I may call so. India is great for materialistic quality of life, you can buy an awesome car and a nice bunglow for a fraction of the cost in Singapore. You can have a maid, a driver, home delivery of everything for very cheap etc.

However, on the intangible quality of life side, Singapore trumps most countries. Women feel so empowered here, they can walk alone in the night, travel in public transport without any fear of molestation. In India, my wife doesnt know how to drive, so she would always depend on me or she will have to use Uber and there is constant fear of safety. Same for my daughter. Here in Singapore, my daughter takes the public bus, 5 bus stops from my house to her school, she is so independent here.

Then even though we live in HDB here it is open we leave our main doors open and have no fear, there is no need of any security. I laugh at the crazy levels of condo security, at the main gate and then at the tower gate, lol, what for? It feels as if condo dwellers live in a prison and visitors have so much protocol to follow just to visit them. HDBs are so open and welcoming. Then there are free public parks, cheap and nice public swimming pools, awesome public transport, clean and polution free air, drinking water directly from the tap etc. In India, even to step out and buy something, you will have to take your car or a motorbike out, you cannot just walk, there are no footpaths, you have to cross the road without zebra crossing, just run across and hope no vehicle hits you.

So I believe that when you are in Rome do what the Romans do. Singapore is not great for materialistic quality of life, so it is would be stupid for an expat to come here and try to replicate their overseas materialistic quality of life here. It is going to be crazy expensive, just dont come here at all. However, if you can, appreciate the intangible quality of life that Singapore offers and make good use of it while you are here. When you go back to India, you will anyways have to spend money to make up for what the state doesnt provide you. So go there, then buy a car and a nice bunglow, keep a maid and driver also if you want and enjoy the materialistic quality of life. Atleast when you go back you feel some upside even though you give up on a lot of intangible aspects of quality of life.

i don't know what you are smoking WD40, but Singapore is as materialistic as it gets. everything here is about $$.

I think WD40 is trying to say is that Singapore is a good place to make money, not spend money (on materialistic pursuits), because you don’t get the bang for your buck here.

As an example, before I moved to Singapore I used to be a car enthusiast, I always bought car magazines and had all my favorites picked out, knew all the performance numbers and specs — but as soon as I arrived here, the prices made me lose all interest and I don’t even care about it anymore. My materialistic mindset was transformed. Not necessarily a bad thing.

[Wd40]

I think WD40 is trying to say is that Singapore is a good place to make money, not spend money (on materialistic pursuits), because you don’t get the bang for your buck here.

As an example, before I moved to Singapore I used to be a car enthusiast, I always bought car magazines and had all my favorites picked out, knew all the performance numbers and specs — but as soon as I arrived here, the prices made me lose all interest and I don’t even care about it anymore. My materialistic mindset was transformed. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Thanks! Yes this is exactly what I meant. Every place has its own definition of luxury and necessity. A car is a necessity in India, in Singapore it is luxury. Just because you drive a car in India and you cannot drive a car in Singapore doesn't mean our quality of life is lower than India. Same thing about condo security, it is a necessity in India and a luxury in Singapore. A maid is a luxury in the US and Europe and most western 1st world countries. But in India and Singapore it is cheap to hire a maid. You go to a place and you make it work for you. Being an expat (the traditional definition not the bells and whistles types) is not for everyone. It requires one to be flexible and be open minded to make the most of it.

To me after living in Singapore for 15 years, the question is what do I have to show for myself? Just having a good life is not enough. The definition of good life is subjective. But the money you make is real and measurable. I want to go back to India having lived a good life here + made enough money to live a good life over there too.

[rajagainstthemachine]

I think WD40 is trying to say is that Singapore is a good place to make money, not spend money (on materialistic pursuits), because you don’t get the bang for your buck here.

but as soon as I arrived here, the prices made me lose all interest and I don’t even care about it anymore. My materialistic mindset was transformed. Not necessarily a bad thing.

the plan should be to never spend anything in Singapore anyway, the plan should be to use it as a travel hub and travel around the region and spend in local currency, sgd stretches a long long way.
this is why locals go to Batam, JB, BKK a lot for cheap food, massage, spa, hair treatments etc.

[Lisafuller]

Great points, I think we just had a different definition of expat in mind. I was envisioning the European or American expats that have their big houses, International Schools and cars paid for by their companies.

This is an antiquated definition, expats Vs FT. I remember when I came here a decade ago this definition was already getting outdated as expat packages became very fewer and far in between and also FT became a bad word, so it just dropped out of the lingo. Now I believe we can just use the term expat to everyone who is here on a long term pass and not related to a Singaporean or PR.

Yup, my definition is definitely the outdated one since most of my friends are expats who came in on packages.

[Lisafuller]

Then even though we live in HDB here it is open we leave our main doors open and have no fear, there is no need of any security. I laugh at the crazy levels of condo security, at the main gate and then at the tower gate, lol, what for? It feels as if condo dwellers live in a prison and visitors have so much protocol to follow just to visit them. HDBs are so open and welcoming. Then there are free public parks, cheap and nice public swimming pools, awesome public transport, clean and polution free air, drinking water directly from the tap etc. In India, even to step out and buy something, you will have to take your car or a motorbike out, you cannot just walk, there are no footpaths, you have to cross the road without zebra crossing, just run across and hope no vehicle hits you.

I had always assumed that private apartments were required to hire security guards in order to boost their employment numbers here.

Many in the security sector are from Malaysia. I heard of "expats", of various skin tones, who trespass to use free pools in adjacent condos. I used to stay in a condo opposite a popular shopping complex. The security will periodically remove bicycles illegally parked inside the premise. I guess they trust the condominium security, and the covered parking.

We have a minimart in my condo, and residents from neighboring condos often try to sneak in to visit. They used to be let in no problem, but security has tightened in the last couple years so now they have to register at the guard house if they want to come in. They are still allowed in, but no longer able to stroll in as and when they like without being IDed.

[Lisafuller]

There are a couple of HDBs with gated systems too. One in Punggol Central and City View @ Boon Keng near ICA. Dawson & Pinnacle@Duxton don’t have these features despite their million dollar resale HDBs. IMO all the gated security in condos & HDB are a joke since people can easily follow the person in front. I had to do home visits for my previous job, went via taxi into all sorts of condos (old ones, new ones, ones where the lift brings you straight up into the house) without ever being stopped.

You want security, try some government buildings where you have to trade in your IC for a security pass, the internet browsing on some Govt computers are very rudimentary, you cannot stick your flashdrive into any computer or the alarm will sound, and no phones either. Some govt places don’t even allow foreigners to intern/work there.

I get what you mean about security here being fairly perfunctory, but I must say in the last couple years security at my condo has really tightened. Where you would just be able to say the words drop off and be let in the front gate, now you have to specify block and unit number, while a machine scans your license plate.

[Lisafuller]

Yeah, Lisa, we are great at forgetting the actual definition of Expatriate. Everybody here on any sort of work visa that came from another country, regardless of where or which pass, are, by definition, Expatriates unless of course they are Malaysians who drive across the causeway daily.

Yup, that’s definitely true. I think I’ve just gotten used to my own definition.

[Lisafuller]

I think condo security is needed not to provide a feeling of safety. I think that's ridiculous in Singapore - you have to be quite paranoid to call that out as a justification. For me it's more about ensuring that outsiders aren't walking in and enjoying facilities that we pay for like the swimming pool or the gym.

But is knowing that outsiders aren’t mooching off your facilities also peace of mind in some sense?

[smoulder]

Great points, I think we just had a different definition of expat in mind. I was envisioning the European or American expats that have their big houses, International Schools and cars paid for by their companies.

This is an antiquated definition, expats Vs FT. I remember when I came here a decade ago this definition was already getting outdated as expat packages became very fewer and far in between and also FT became a bad word, so it just dropped out of the lingo. Now I believe we can just use the term expat to everyone who is here on a long term pass and not related to a Singaporean or PR.

Yup, my definition is definitely the outdated one since most of my friends are expats who came in on packages.

There has actually never been such a definition. It is more of a "colloquial" definition, not representative of the true dictionary meaning.

[Lisafuller]

I think condo security is needed not to provide a feeling of safety. I think that's ridiculous in Singapore - you have to be quite paranoid to call that out as a justification. For me it's more about ensuring that outsiders aren't walking in and enjoying facilities that we pay for like the swimming pool or the gym.

The security is not only at the outer compound. Many condos have another level of security system gate below their tower. You need to press some code and then the owner will activate their gate.

I just feel it is a class system divide. I have seen people who live in condos use phrases like "I am going to my condo" rather than "I am going home". Imagine a HDB guy saying "I am going to my HDB"

But for us expats we don't really need to live up with the Joneses', so I don't really care what people think about us living in an HDB and taking public transport. In India, we have judgemental relatives and friends and there it is more difficult. But here I just love living the frugal life on our own terms.

Living in a condo is not just about the rent, the friends you make there are also a different social class than the friends you make in HDB, even among expats. My wife tells me her condo friends take taxi everywhere and don't even know where the bus stop is outside their condo. So we cannot make friends with such people if our lifestyle doesn't match with them. It is much better to live and be friends with people of similar lifestyle as we want. So my wife's friends who live in HDB are all very compatible, they take public transport and go all over Singapore and spending habits too are very similar.

Well, considering over 80% of locals live in HDBs, those living in condos are the ones who are the odd ones out. I personally don’t think there’s any malicious intent when people say they are returning to their condos, if anything it’s just a weird way to phrase it. Just like how Tesla and MacBook owners always refer to their cars as Teslas and Macs as Macs instead of laptops. It’s just semantics.

[Lisafuller]

It is more nuanced. There is this materialistic quality of life and then the intangible quality of life, if I may call so. India is great for materialistic quality of life, you can buy an awesome car and a nice bunglow for a fraction of the cost in Singapore. You can have a maid, a driver, home delivery of everything for very cheap etc.

However, on the intangible quality of life side, Singapore trumps most countries. Women feel so empowered here, they can walk alone in the night, travel in public transport without any fear of molestation. In India, my wife doesnt know how to drive, so she would always depend on me or she will have to use Uber and there is constant fear of safety. Same for my daughter. Here in Singapore, my daughter takes the public bus, 5 bus stops from my house to her school, she is so independent here.

Then even though we live in HDB here it is open we leave our main doors open and have no fear, there is no need of any security. I laugh at the crazy levels of condo security, at the main gate and then at the tower gate, lol, what for? It feels as if condo dwellers live in a prison and visitors have so much protocol to follow just to visit them. HDBs are so open and welcoming. Then there are free public parks, cheap and nice public swimming pools, awesome public transport, clean and polution free air, drinking water directly from the tap etc. In India, even to step out and buy something, you will have to take your car or a motorbike out, you cannot just walk, there are no footpaths, you have to cross the road without zebra crossing, just run across and hope no vehicle hits you.

So I believe that when you are in Rome do what the Romans do. Singapore is not great for materialistic quality of life, so it is would be stupid for an expat to come here and try to replicate their overseas materialistic quality of life here. It is going to be crazy expensive, just dont come here at all. However, if you can, appreciate the intangible quality of life that Singapore offers and make good use of it while you are here. When you go back to India, you will anyways have to spend money to make up for what the state doesnt provide you. So go there, then buy a car and a nice bunglow, keep a maid and driver also if you want and enjoy the materialistic quality of life. Atleast when you go back you feel some upside even though you give up on a lot of intangible aspects of quality of life.

i don't know what you are smoking WD40, but Singapore is as materialistic as it gets. everything here is about $$.

I think WD40 is trying to say is that Singapore is a good place to make money, not spend money (on materialistic pursuits), because you don’t get the bang for your buck here.

As an example, before I moved to Singapore I used to be a car enthusiast, I always bought car magazines and had all my favorites picked out, knew all the performance numbers and specs — but as soon as I arrived here, the prices made me lose all interest and I don’t even care about it anymore. My materialistic mindset was transformed. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Can definitely relate, in the US we were used to driving two or three cars, each nice European/American brands. Here, we buy secondhand, and usually a cheap Korean car at that. It’s just not worth the money, and if anybody is going to judge me for it they can do so, they are the ones who don’t know how to protect their cash.