What is my PR chance

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stormmonarch
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What is my PR chance

Post by stormmonarch » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 3:27 am

I am a Vietnamese. I have been staying in Singapore since 2005 (under student pass for the majority of the time). I completed my secondary school education and A level in Singapore. I completed my bachelor degree in engineering (first class honour) at NTU 7 years ago and started working as an engineer. At that point (2014), my salary was SGD 3600/month. In 2015, after one year of working, I applied for PR and received a rejection letter 5 months later. In 2017, I quit my job and pursued my PhD degree at NUS. I completed my PhD last year and have been working at NUS as a researcher (SGD 5000/month). It has been one year of working now. I have published a few papers. My research work is on CO2 reduction, which the government is currently interested in.

Have been living in Singapore for more than half of my life, I consider Singapore as my home. I want to become a PR and then a Singaporean in the future. In my heart, I always feel scared that if one day I am deemed as unfit for work, I will be deported back to Vietnam. Or maybe 40 years in the future when I cannot work anymore, I won't be allowed to stay here. I cannot change my race and I am considered as 'Others' in the application, and the competition is tough. My mum is a Chinese Vietnamese (both of her parents migrated from China to Vietnam, but she was born and raised in Vietnam). In my previous application, I did input that my mum's race as Chinese, but it didn't seem to help.

Should I apply for PR again now or wait until I have more credentials in my research work? Or anything I should do to improve my chance? As I am a gay man, please do not ask me to marry a local girl. I heard that if I entrust my application to a PR application company, they will write a recommendation letter and I would have a higher chance. I'm not sure whether there is any truth into that.

Looking forward to your kind advices.Many thanks for reading my post.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 3:40 pm

Do not bother with immigration consultants/agencies, it’s a huge waste of money. Just apply by yourself.

Your pay is a little low for a PhD holder and ethnic quota is against you. Improve salary and apply.

Or you can apply straightaway and treat the $100 application fee as a donation in the event there is a rejection.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by smoulder » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 4:04 pm

I think your best hope is to prove that you are of partial Chinese descent. As has been stated, don't bother with agencies - the only thing that they can do differently is to write up a recommendation letter or whatever and that will end up in the trash bin.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 4:55 pm

Agreed with both MOCHS & smoulder. If you can document your mother's ethnicity, you should try it again (especially important to have original copy and notarized translation of same). Once you have that in hand, Try again. 5k for a researcher with only one years experience after your PhD, I think between the two you might have a reasonable chance. Bearing in mind you have probably read elsewhere on here as to the difficulties of Vietnamese gain anything more then PR here (and even that has proven difficult for most). I've written a fair amount in this forum over the years with my own personal involvement in this sphere. The one thing that might be a stumbling block is if your Mother (or her parents) was/were from the former N. VN).
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 5:06 pm

Oh, the only thing an agency can do it lighten your bank account. They cannot write anything other that what will fit in the boxes and you give them. The recommendation letter or cover letters are discarded by ICA without being read. All they can do is BS the applicant into believing their sales pitch on their high approval rating. Truth be know, if you read the fine print you will find the truth. The agencies retain the right to not accept you as a client. They will only take those who are, for all intents and purposes, a shoe-in anyway, if the applicant were to file it themselves. This way, the probability of a rejection, which would lower their approval rating, doesn't exists or is drastically minimized. You can get better information right here by folks who, in times past, also came here looking for help/information. There are a lot of us here and we are the ones who are paying it forward as the saying goes. We've been there and we've seen what works and what doesn't. Some of us, sadly, like myself, are a little hard at times but all of us work as well as donate a substantial amount of time to the forum. I just have a habit of not blowing smoke, but telling it like it is. I apologize for that but at 74 I doubt I'll be changing now! :-k [-( :cool: Good Luck.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by stormmonarch » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 6:43 pm

Thank MOCHS, smoulder, and sundaymorningstaple for the kind replies. I already had an idea that the agencies may not be of any help, but I was clinging on any tiny bit of hope. As you all suggested, I will not employ their services.

Regarding the low salary for a PhD holder: Researchers at universities don't usually have high salaries since their pays come from the professors' grants. While my field of research is of interest to the Singapore government, there are not many research institutes working on this topic, so there are limited options for a job change. Currently, I hope to build up my portfolio at NUS and then apply for A*STaR in a few years.

Regarding proving my mum's ethnicity: In my previous application, my notarized translated birth certificate shows that my mum is Chinese. Is there any other specific document that I should provide them (example, her IC or her birth certificate)?

Regarding whether any of my family members is from the former North Vietnam: None of my family members is from the former North Vietnam. My mum's side is Chinese. My maternal grandparents migrated from China to the former South Vietnam and my mum's side has been staying there since then. My dad's side is from the middle part of Vietnam, and they are all farmers with no link to the former North Vietnam.

In the past 17 years, I have not received an invitation for applying for PR. In the rejection letter of my first application, they did not invite me to apply again. I understand that my chance is low. I even consider volunteering for NS, but since I am the only breadwinner for my family in Vietnam, this option is not viable. I heard that working at A*STaR gives a better chance of getting accepted for PR, and that was the entire reason I started on my PhD journey. I was desperate after the first rejection, and I am trying all I can to improve my chance.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by smoulder » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 6:47 pm

The rejection letter format is very generic. I believe in recent years, we all have received pretty much the same thing. Something about how we can continue to live here on our current pass. Nothing about being eligible to apply again. But some of us have then gone to apply again and were approved. So don't be disheartened by the verbiage of the letter.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 7:30 pm

Working at A*Star only gives you a higher salary, not a better chance at getting PR.

As a citizen working in the scientific field, I have seen numerous PhD-holding Research Fellows (RFs) & Principal Investigators (PIs) apply for PRs and fail. I’ve seen RFs from PRC fail in getting PR too despite being of favoured race.

Remember that ICA wants PR holders who have integrated into SG and can support themselves (not be a burden). That means sky high pay & staying in an expat bubble/enclave isn’t the answer either. There are lowly educated hawkers who get PRs too.

Perhaps improving salary & persistence is key here.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by x9200 » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 8:31 pm

stormmonarch wrote:
Mon, 07 Mar 2022 6:43 pm
I heard that working at A*STaR gives a better chance of getting accepted for PR, and that was the entire reason I started on my PhD journey. I was desperate after the first rejection, and I am trying all I can to improve my chance.
It may give a better chance but the difference is pretty much negligible if other things are not there. One of such things is your ethnicity. I know AStar staff, PhDs, with much better salaries than yours being rejected. IMHO emphasizing and documenting your Chinese roots may help you one order of magnitude better than relying alone on the AStar employment.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 8:40 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Mon, 07 Mar 2022 7:30 pm
Working at A*Star only gives you a higher salary, not a better chance at getting PR.

As a citizen working in the scientific field, I have seen numerous PhD-holding Research Fellows (RFs) & Principal Investigators (PIs) apply for PRs and fail. I’ve seen RFs from PRC fail in getting PR too despite being of favoured race.

Remember that ICA wants PR holders who have integrated into SG and can support themselves (not be a burden). That means sky high pay & staying in an expat bubble/enclave isn’t the answer either. There are lowly educated hawkers who get PRs too.

Perhaps improving salary & persistence is key here.
Small correction but doesn't change your overall response. He's not working for A*star yet. Was just talking about applying for it in a few years. Not there yet.
Currently, I hope to build up my portfolio at NUS and then apply for A*STaR in a few years.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 9:32 pm

^ I was replying to this part of his post:
I heard that working at A*STaR gives a better chance of getting accepted for PR, and that was the entire reason I started on my PhD journey. I was desperate after the first rejection, and I am trying all I can to improve my chance.
The way he phrased it was he wanted to eventually go to A*Star so he can get a guaranteed PR which isn’t true. I was correcting that misconception.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by stormmonarch » Mon, 07 Mar 2022 10:58 pm

Thank you all for your kind replies. I don't think A*STaR gives me a guaranteed PR, I only thought of it as a better chance

I aim for A*STaR due to two reasons. One is the A*STaR postgraduate scholarship (applicable for any PhD holders graduating in the past 5 years), and two is in hope of improving my chance of getting PR (if I fail to get the scholarship). However, this A*STaR scholarship seems to be competitive, and I am trying to improve my portfolio before applying (I still have another 4 years before I become unqualified for the application).

This scholarship is only granted to Singaporeans. All successful candidates have to convert to Singaporeans. I am under the impression that A*STaR will help the candidates to get SC, although they do not outright say it. When attending their briefing, a question was posed by an audience, "If I get the scholarship but fail to get SC, will my scholarship be revoked?" The presenter didn't reply immediately, and after a few moments, responded "In that case, we will hold the scholarship for you until you obtain SC". The response made me think that the presenter wanted to say "You will get SC for sure" but couldn't say that, being politically correct. Of course, all of these could be my false interpretation. I do have friends who become SC after getting a similar scholarship from A*STaR, and he is also a Vietnamese.

Do you have any information on this matter? I trust your experience and would like to know more about this topic, please.

In the mean while, I plan to apply for PR again after my second cycle of tax assessment.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by MOCHS » Tue, 08 Mar 2022 7:35 am

First and foremost, you should be studying for a PhD ‘cos you have a keen interest in the field of study, not because of prestige, make your parents proud they have a “doctor”, or it’ll grant you a maybe-PR. That is all wrong and that isn’t what learning & education is about! I’ve seen PhD holders who are absolutely crap researchers.

But since you already have a PhD, ask yourself if you’re really keen on research & academia. No point slogging it out in a job you’re not interested in because of a maybe-PR. What happens when you don’t get it?

I’m not aware of the details of A*Star scholarship. Just because one of your friends became a SC after the scholarship does not mean it is guaranteed! Nothing is guaranteed.

You just improve your salary, buy your ticket, and take your chances. That is all. There is no shortcut or magic pill.

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by stormmonarch » Tue, 08 Mar 2022 10:12 am

Everyone has a different dream and aspiration in life. A person can take extra courses or postgraduate study to have a higher salary rather than a call of passion. Another person may learn a new course to take a new job just to migrate with their partner rather than a call of passion. We all only have one life and I don't think working towards our dreams is wrong.

Yes, there are PhD holders who are bad researchers. However, whether I belong to that category, it is the judgment of my supervisors, my fellow collaborators, the editors of the journals I submit to, and the audience of my papers. The fact that I pursued my PhD in hope to get PR does not mean that my work is not of quality.

How many of us can confidently say that we are 'interested' in our jobs? How many will say their jobs are their lifelong passion? Many would belong to the category of 'slight interest but okay to continue with the job'. That doesn't mean they will do a bad job though.

We don't need to live for a noble cause or strive for passion. If a dream is not in conflict with other people's interest, why is it wrong?

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Re: What is my PR chance

Post by MOCHS » Tue, 08 Mar 2022 11:49 am

You completely misunderstood my point. Your summary is PhD + A*Star = instant PR which is not true at all or everyone will be gaming the system.

I’m just saying it straight that there are many PhD holders who fail to get a PR. That is all. Just don’t be too disheartened if you get a PR rejection because you thought having a PhD will give you PR and you might feel you wasted years perusing a PhD & working in research for naught.

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