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Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

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smoulder
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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by smoulder » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 8:18 am

Yep. Us vs them.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by bro75 » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:57 pm

The war is Putin's fault. The fact that many of the former Soviet states are more aligned to the West is due to the fact that their experience under the Soviet Union was not a happy one. The former Soviet states still aligned with Russia are those with autocratic leaders.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 7:17 pm

No question about whose fault this war is.

It seems only the other even worse dictator from Belarus who doesn't respect any international laws is openly supporting Russia.

The good thing so far has been that the human rights and democracy respecting countries have pretty much all given they financial and equipment support in short notice. We can only hope that russians in masses go to streets and kick their dictator out of Kreml.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by malcontent » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 8:33 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:35 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 27 Feb 2022 9:46 pm
Myasis Dragon wrote:
Sun, 27 Feb 2022 9:29 pm


^^^^^^^^^^
This!!!!!
And if someone in Washington was paying attention, they would update the Taiwan Relations Act immediately.

Strength deters bad guys. Weakness begets war. ~ Mike Pompeo
Update it how?
Have a look at the US-Japan Security Treaty - Article 5 commits the United States to defend Japan if it is attacked by a third party. If such an article existed for Taiwan, it would leave no doubt, and could certainly avert a war.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 9:44 pm

x9200 wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 7:25 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:13 am
x9200 wrote:
Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:49 pm

Putin was and is a thug what was clear for long time already. Unfortunately some countries, especially Germany helped him to grow in power and make Europe dependent on Russian gas supply. That's what is the core of the problem with the SWIFT ban. It took a lot of diplomatic effort to convince German gov. to speak in one voice with the rest of EU community for the sanctions to be implemented and military equipment support provided to Ukraine.

So I would not be that concerned about the attitude of China. China actually played surprisingly "fair" abstaining (alongside with India and UAE) the recent UN Security Council Resolution condemning Russia. Over last few centuries of European history Germany and Russia brought war and destruction to many European countries acting too often together. This is what worries me most as it appears some things never change.
I think China is quietly watching things unfold so they can do the same thing to TW in time to come.
Not sure. I don't know enough about people of TW and the political situation around to compare and speculate but Russia not only officially recognized Ukraine as an independent state but also was a signing party for 1994 Budapest Memorandum to assure security of Ukraine after Ukraine become a non-nuclear weapon state. I don't see here any clear parallel to TW.

And the response of China is not supportive to Russia at all. Yes, they didn't ban import/export to Russia and didn't join the variety of sanctions other countries are implementing, but they also didn't vote against condemning Russia in the UN SC resolution. More over, Chinese banks normally follow bans imposed and this what already happens:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ommodities

For China, in respect of TW situation, what happens in Ukraine and around the crisis could be actually deterrent as any subject considering military annexation would probably make the international community reacting stronger than before.
The parallels lie in both having a power hungry, egoistic superpower exerting their control on a state that wishes to have nothing to do with them.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 9:52 pm

x9200 wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 7:44 am
smoulder wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:35 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:08 am


Really? I would think that most would be on the Ukrainian’s side. Especially because the plight of Ukraine is something that resonates with most Singaporeans… right to self-determination and whatnot.
Don't get me wrong here. I am not for war. It doesn't matter who's on the receiving end - people who have elected governments or people who don't. I'm merely pointing out that military powers on "both sides" routinely do these kinds of shenanigans and get away with it. Not the first time it has happened and not the first time it will happen.
Only this time it is in the heart of Europe and already woke the old cold war and WW2 demons. It is not something that happens on some remote continent to people you have never heard about. Not for Europeans and Western community. Nothing like this (a country invading unprovoked an independent state) happened in Europe since WW2.
You would have thought they’d learned something from WWII, but unfortunately no.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 9:55 pm

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 7:17 pm
No question about whose fault this war is.

It seems only the other even worse dictator from Belarus who doesn't respect any international laws is openly supporting Russia.

The good thing so far has been that the human rights and democracy respecting countries have pretty much all given they financial and equipment support in short notice. We can only hope that russians in masses go to streets and kick their dictator out of Kreml.
A couple other countries have expressed support for Russia, eg Syria, but they all have one thing in common- they’re all backwards pseudo democracies.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 28 Feb 2022 10:01 pm

bro75 wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:57 pm
The war is Putin's fault. The fact that many of the former Soviet states are more aligned to the West is due to the fact that their experience under the Soviet Union was not a happy one. The former Soviet states still aligned with Russia are those with autocratic leaders.
And everyone knows this, even Putin. But that doesn’t stop him.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by x9200 » Tue, 01 Mar 2022 5:56 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 9:44 pm
x9200 wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 7:25 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 28 Feb 2022 1:13 am


I think China is quietly watching things unfold so they can do the same thing to TW in time to come.
Not sure. I don't know enough about people of TW and the political situation around to compare and speculate but Russia not only officially recognized Ukraine as an independent state but also was a signing party for 1994 Budapest Memorandum to assure security of Ukraine after Ukraine become a non-nuclear weapon state. I don't see here any clear parallel to TW.

And the response of China is not supportive to Russia at all. Yes, they didn't ban import/export to Russia and didn't join the variety of sanctions other countries are implementing, but they also didn't vote against condemning Russia in the UN SC resolution. More over, Chinese banks normally follow bans imposed and this what already happens:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ommodities

For China, in respect of TW situation, what happens in Ukraine and around the crisis could be actually deterrent as any subject considering military annexation would probably make the international community reacting stronger than before.
The parallels lie in both having a power hungry, egoistic superpower exerting their control on a state that wishes to have nothing to do with them.
Yeah, but that applies to any area of their interests equally.
I don't really think China is going to do anything similar to TW based on what happened around the Ukraine crisis but I am pretty sure China is going to use this situation to strengthen dependency of Russia on China's economy and financial services.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 02 Mar 2022 2:08 am

Never really thought about that, was more focused on Ukraine-Russia relations and China-TW relations.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by smoulder » Thu, 03 Mar 2022 4:45 pm

"Russia says its economy is taking 'serious blows' as isolation grows"

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/business ... index.html

I'm wondering if the effects are as bad as CNN is reporting, which is contrary to some opinions here, and if it is, then would it make much difference to the situation if China tries throw Russia a lifeline?

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by the observer » Thu, 03 Mar 2022 4:57 pm

Whilst the world rolls over from soaring oil and gas, Russian oil is going on a steep discount. I guess China would be snapping em up.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by Lisafuller » Fri, 04 Mar 2022 12:40 am

smoulder wrote:
Thu, 03 Mar 2022 4:45 pm
"Russia says its economy is taking 'serious blows' as isolation grows"

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/business ... index.html

I'm wondering if the effects are as bad as CNN is reporting, which is contrary to some opinions here, and if it is, then would it make much difference to the situation if China tries throw Russia a lifeline?
I don’t doubt the severity of the situation, my daughter has sent me quite a few tiktok videos taken by people on the ground in both Russia and Ukraine, things look pretty serious.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by x9200 » Fri, 04 Mar 2022 12:23 pm

smoulder wrote:
Thu, 03 Mar 2022 4:45 pm
"Russia says its economy is taking 'serious blows' as isolation grows"

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/business ... index.html

I'm wondering if the effects are as bad as CNN is reporting, which is contrary to some opinions here, and if it is, then would it make much difference to the situation if China tries throw Russia a lifeline?
It's very serious not only because of the sanctions but also from managing the export/import risks perspective. Logistically and financially. Demand for Russian oil is low even at the discounted price because there is increased risk with the payments and transportation. Chinese may try to help some way but even they are affected - for example, the "new silk road" train passage to Europe is heavily affected as insurers are hesitant to insure the goods to be transported.
Moscow stock exchange remains closed from Monday - Ruble lost like 30-40% of its value to USD on Monday. Most if not all Russia investment security ratings are already at or near junk levels. Etc. etc.

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Re: Russia vs Ukraine- thoughts?

Post by SGBoyxxx » Sun, 27 Mar 2022 3:21 pm

Saudi Arabia attacks: Yemen's Houthi rebels target oil facilities
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwni6BOG-jQ

I suddenly feel a " conspiracy theory "
If you trace back just last weeks, Japan, SK go Saudi talk about Oil supply related stuffs.
On the same time Europe and USA discuss among themselves on it don't depend so much from Russia

suddenly after all these talks, few days later come this attack on Saudi Oil facilites.

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