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Lisafuller
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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by Lisafuller » Sat, 29 Jan 2022 10:59 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:19 pm
I remember the 1997 Asian Financial Meltdown, coupled with the 1997 exodus from HK during the "handover" by the British back to the Chinese. Singapore put out that they were offering 20,000 PR to any Honkies who wanted to come to Singapore. Less than half of those were utilized if I remember correctly. The majority went to the UK, Canada, US & Aust. For most Honkies Singapore was a last resort. That was also the first big property crash here. It bottomed out in Jan~Feb 1999. So I bought my first HDB Resale flat at valuation with no COV at all. I'm still in the same flat 22 years later. Current value on the OM is around 200% what I paid for it.
Not sure why the narrative that is so commonly propagated is that HKers are doing to move here. I agree with Mal, if anything Singapore is close to a last resort. Interesting that you bring this up, if anything the statistics speak for themselves.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by Lisafuller » Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:03 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:49 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:19 pm
I remember the 1997 Asian Financial Meltdown, coupled with the 1997 exodus from HK during the "handover" by the British back to the Chinese. Singapore put out that they were offering 20,000 PR to any Honkies who wanted to come to Singapore. Less than half of those were utilized if I remember correctly. The majority went to the UK, Canada, US & Aust. For most Honkies Singapore was a last resort. That was also the first big property crash here. It bottomed out in Jan~Feb 1999. So I bought my first HDB Resale flat at valuation with no COV at all. I'm still in the same flat 22 years later. Current value on the OM is around 200% what I paid for it.
My employer moved their head office for this part of the world from HK to SG in 1992 before the handover and they brought a lot of Honkies with them. They got special PR with expedited citizenship (within a year or two) if they chose to. When I joined in 1997, my first two bosses were Honkies. The first one is still working in our company but in Australia, the second one retired about 10 years ago and stayed in Singapore. I am now one of just a few dozen remaining of the first 100 employees, myself being #68 which still shows on my badge today. Walking around the office brings back so many memories.

My father worked at the same employer for 35 years, the company currently known as Verizon. I’ve already got 25 years in, we’ll have to see if I make it another 10.
They ought to give you a long service award! If the expedited citizenship was still not enough of an incentive for HKers to flock here, then clearly SG is not as attractive to them as it is made out to be.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:55 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:03 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:49 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:19 pm
I remember the 1997 Asian Financial Meltdown, coupled with the 1997 exodus from HK during the "handover" by the British back to the Chinese. Singapore put out that they were offering 20,000 PR to any Honkies who wanted to come to Singapore. Less than half of those were utilized if I remember correctly. The majority went to the UK, Canada, US & Aust. For most Honkies Singapore was a last resort. That was also the first big property crash here. It bottomed out in Jan~Feb 1999. So I bought my first HDB Resale flat at valuation with no COV at all. I'm still in the same flat 22 years later. Current value on the OM is around 200% what I paid for it.
My employer moved their head office for this part of the world from HK to SG in 1992 before the handover and they brought a lot of Honkies with them. They got special PR with expedited citizenship (within a year or two) if they chose to. When I joined in 1997, my first two bosses were Honkies. The first one is still working in our company but in Australia, the second one retired about 10 years ago and stayed in Singapore. I am now one of just a few dozen remaining of the first 100 employees, myself being #68 which still shows on my badge today. Walking around the office brings back so many memories.

My father worked at the same employer for 35 years, the company currently known as Verizon. I’ve already got 25 years in, we’ll have to see if I make it another 10.
They ought to give you a long service award! If the expedited citizenship was still not enough of an incentive for HKers to flock here, then clearly SG is not as attractive to them as it is made out to be.
Over my 26 years here, I have found the Honkies that come here and stay tend to be the most conservative, close minded and risk averse of the bunch.

One of the things I hear most commonly sited as the reason for staying (in spite of the lack of space and high cost of living) is this idea that Singapore is the safest country in the world. When I mention the fact that Japan has lower crime than Singapore, they often don’t believe it and can’t accept it. I also like to bring up the fact that many neighborhoods in the US are just as safe as Singapore. Despite what the media portrays, crime rates in the US continue to decline, a trend that began in the 1980’s and has persisted decade after decade. The US has some of the most detailed and insightful crime databases of any country in the world, it’s all available for anyone who cares to have a look.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:12 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:55 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:03 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:49 pm


My employer moved their head office for this part of the world from HK to SG in 1992 before the handover and they brought a lot of Honkies with them. They got special PR with expedited citizenship (within a year or two) if they chose to. When I joined in 1997, my first two bosses were Honkies. The first one is still working in our company but in Australia, the second one retired about 10 years ago and stayed in Singapore. I am now one of just a few dozen remaining of the first 100 employees, myself being #68 which still shows on my badge today. Walking around the office brings back so many memories.

My father worked at the same employer for 35 years, the company currently known as Verizon. I’ve already got 25 years in, we’ll have to see if I make it another 10.
They ought to give you a long service award! If the expedited citizenship was still not enough of an incentive for HKers to flock here, then clearly SG is not as attractive to them as it is made out to be.
Over my 26 years here, I have found the Honkies that come here and stay tend to be the most conservative, close minded and risk averse of the bunch.

One of the things I hear most commonly sited as the reason for staying (in spite of the lack of space and high cost of living) is this idea that Singapore is the safest country in the world. When I mention the fact that Japan has lower crime than Singapore, they often don’t believe it and can’t accept it. I also like to bring up the fact that many neighborhoods in the US are just as safe as Singapore. Despite what the media portrays, crime rates in the US continue to decline, a trend that began in the 1980’s and has persisted decade after decade. The US has some of the most detailed and insightful crime databases of any country in the world, it’s all available for anyone who cares to have a look.
Both the US and Japan are not particularly easy countries for immigration, particularly Japan. Singapore would be an easier choice for many Hongkies - more liberal immigration (for ethnic Chinese) and it is easier for people who speak more Chinese to get around. And there's cultural affinity. I'm surprised if they put safety on the top of their list.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 2:27 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:12 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:55 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:03 pm


They ought to give you a long service award! If the expedited citizenship was still not enough of an incentive for HKers to flock here, then clearly SG is not as attractive to them as it is made out to be.
Over my 26 years here, I have found the Honkies that come here and stay tend to be the most conservative, close minded and risk averse of the bunch.

One of the things I hear most commonly sited as the reason for staying (in spite of the lack of space and high cost of living) is this idea that Singapore is the safest country in the world. When I mention the fact that Japan has lower crime than Singapore, they often don’t believe it and can’t accept it. I also like to bring up the fact that many neighborhoods in the US are just as safe as Singapore. Despite what the media portrays, crime rates in the US continue to decline, a trend that began in the 1980’s and has persisted decade after decade. The US has some of the most detailed and insightful crime databases of any country in the world, it’s all available for anyone who cares to have a look.
Both the US and Japan are not particularly easy countries for immigration, particularly Japan. Singapore would be an easier choice for many Hongkies - more liberal immigration (for ethnic Chinese) and it is easier for people who speak more Chinese to get around. And there's cultural affinity. I'm surprised if they put safety on the top of their list.
The sentiments on safety is what I’ve heard from Asian immigrants in general. For Honkies specifically, surprisingly they most often mentioned the larger space here, apartments are at least bigger than in HK!
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

Lisafuller
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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by Lisafuller » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 7:46 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 2:27 pm
smoulder wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:12 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:55 am


Over my 26 years here, I have found the Honkies that come here and stay tend to be the most conservative, close minded and risk averse of the bunch.

One of the things I hear most commonly sited as the reason for staying (in spite of the lack of space and high cost of living) is this idea that Singapore is the safest country in the world. When I mention the fact that Japan has lower crime than Singapore, they often don’t believe it and can’t accept it. I also like to bring up the fact that many neighborhoods in the US are just as safe as Singapore. Despite what the media portrays, crime rates in the US continue to decline, a trend that began in the 1980’s and has persisted decade after decade. The US has some of the most detailed and insightful crime databases of any country in the world, it’s all available for anyone who cares to have a look.
Both the US and Japan are not particularly easy countries for immigration, particularly Japan. Singapore would be an easier choice for many Hongkies - more liberal immigration (for ethnic Chinese) and it is easier for people who speak more Chinese to get around. And there's cultural affinity. I'm surprised if they put safety on the top of their list.
The sentiments on safety is what I’ve heard from Asian immigrants in general. For Honkies specifically, surprisingly they most often mentioned the larger space here, apartments are at least bigger than in HK!
Well that’s certainly not a surprise. I’ve seen the cage apartments in HK- absolutely horrific! Not fit for living at all.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by Lisafuller » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 7:48 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 12:12 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:55 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:03 pm


They ought to give you a long service award! If the expedited citizenship was still not enough of an incentive for HKers to flock here, then clearly SG is not as attractive to them as it is made out to be.
Over my 26 years here, I have found the Honkies that come here and stay tend to be the most conservative, close minded and risk averse of the bunch.

One of the things I hear most commonly sited as the reason for staying (in spite of the lack of space and high cost of living) is this idea that Singapore is the safest country in the world. When I mention the fact that Japan has lower crime than Singapore, they often don’t believe it and can’t accept it. I also like to bring up the fact that many neighborhoods in the US are just as safe as Singapore. Despite what the media portrays, crime rates in the US continue to decline, a trend that began in the 1980’s and has persisted decade after decade. The US has some of the most detailed and insightful crime databases of any country in the world, it’s all available for anyone who cares to have a look.
Both the US and Japan are not particularly easy countries for immigration, particularly Japan. Singapore would be an easier choice for many Hongkies - more liberal immigration (for ethnic Chinese) and it is easier for people who speak more Chinese to get around. And there's cultural affinity. I'm surprised if they put safety on the top of their list.
Ethnicity is a great point, living in a majority Chinese country may be quite a pull, although I will say I’m not sure they would identify too much with the Chinese here, even though they’re both Chinese. Other than language, I don’t think they share too much in common. Same same but different.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by Lisafuller » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 7:52 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:55 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 29 Jan 2022 11:03 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sat, 01 Jan 2022 8:49 pm


My employer moved their head office for this part of the world from HK to SG in 1992 before the handover and they brought a lot of Honkies with them. They got special PR with expedited citizenship (within a year or two) if they chose to. When I joined in 1997, my first two bosses were Honkies. The first one is still working in our company but in Australia, the second one retired about 10 years ago and stayed in Singapore. I am now one of just a few dozen remaining of the first 100 employees, myself being #68 which still shows on my badge today. Walking around the office brings back so many memories.

My father worked at the same employer for 35 years, the company currently known as Verizon. I’ve already got 25 years in, we’ll have to see if I make it another 10.
They ought to give you a long service award! If the expedited citizenship was still not enough of an incentive for HKers to flock here, then clearly SG is not as attractive to them as it is made out to be.
Over my 26 years here, I have found the Honkies that come here and stay tend to be the most conservative, close minded and risk averse of the bunch.

One of the things I hear most commonly sited as the reason for staying (in spite of the lack of space and high cost of living) is this idea that Singapore is the safest country in the world. When I mention the fact that Japan has lower crime than Singapore, they often don’t believe it and can’t accept it. I also like to bring up the fact that many neighborhoods in the US are just as safe as Singapore. Despite what the media portrays, crime rates in the US continue to decline, a trend that began in the 1980’s and has persisted decade after decade. The US has some of the most detailed and insightful crime databases of any country in the world, it’s all available for anyone who cares to have a look.
I do agree with you about crime in the US. If you look past the media sensationalism you’ll come to realize that many parts of the US are just as safe as SG. The police there is far more capable than many think.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by MOCHS » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:27 pm

My Caucasian American husband strongly disagrees about the US police “being far more capable”.

He is painfully aware that the way he looks unconsciously grants him some form of privilege in the US and it does make him uncomfortable. There are plenty of news articles listing the disparities in punishments for the same petty crime between a White and a POC.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 9:12 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 7:48 pm

Ethnicity is a great point, living in a majority Chinese country may be quite a pull, although I will say I’m not sure they would identify too much with the Chinese here, even though they’re both Chinese. Other than language, I don’t think they share too much in common. Same same but different.
They are definitely culturally closer to Singaporean and Malaysian Chinese than they are to Caucasians who are the dominant race in the US or Japanese. It's hard to overlook this factor.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 9:54 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 8:27 pm
My Caucasian American husband strongly disagrees about the US police “being far more capable”.

He is painfully aware that the way he looks unconsciously grants him some form of privilege in the US and it does make him uncomfortable. There are plenty of news articles listing the disparities in punishments for the same petty crime between a White and a POC.
I wish your husband could have grown up in my neck of the woods, where underprivileged whites were the norm, trailer trash, stoners, hillbillies, with a smattering of inbreds too. Heck, people of color were often better off and felt sorry for all the poor white who just can’t catch a break.

From my perspective, this idea of white privilege is just a liberal narrative that elite whites in their ivory towers came up with. I never saw it on the ground where I came from. I believe that is why there is so much division in America today, the elites are simply out of touch with reality.

There is privilege alright, but I believe it’s more about money than skin color.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:00 pm

Privilege exists in every country. It's always the dominant race or ethnicity. Caucasians in western countries. Chinese in Singapore. Upper caste Hindus in India. The list goes on and on. Yes, there are exceptions among the dominant race or ethnicity, but they are exceptions and not the rule.

From what I know, the people of color (mostly Asians) who have "bucked the trend" in the US are often immigrants who went to the US riding on privilege in their countries of origin. Meaning they typically came in with some advantages.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:31 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 11:00 pm
Privilege exists in every country. It's always the dominant race or ethnicity. Caucasians in western countries. Chinese in Singapore. Upper caste Hindus in India. The list goes on and on. Yes, there are exceptions among the dominant race or ethnicity, but they are exceptions and not the rule.

From what I know, the people of color (mostly Asians) who have "bucked the trend" in the US are often immigrants who went to the US riding on privilege in their countries of origin. Meaning they typically came in with some advantages.
How about Chinese minority populations in other parts of Southeast Asia? They didn’t come in with any privilege, and mostly didn’t get any when they arrived. Yet, in every country, they seem to have carved out a greater share of the economy for themselves than the majority populations. And it’s not just Chinese, I believe the same can be said of the Indian population in Fiji. I also find it interesting that Africans in the UK are now better off than the whites.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by smoulder » Mon, 31 Jan 2022 12:58 am

I think we probably need to take a closer look at each country before assuming that for instance the Chinese have raced ahead in SEA without being handed racial privileges.

For instance, in Malaysia, this is one possible explanation -

https://www.statista.com/statistics/856 ... nic-group/

"The Bumiputera make up the majority of the Malaysian population, yet have one of the lowest average monthly household incomes in Malaysia. This economic disparity could be explained by the effects of colonial policies that kept the Bumiputera largely in the countryside. This resulted in an urban-rural divide that was characterized by ethnicity, with the immigrant Chinese and Indian laborers concentrated in the urban centers, a demographic pattern that is still evident today.
There was a considerable difference in urban and rural household incomes in Malaysia, with urban household income being around 3.6 thousand ringgit more than rural households. This was largely due to the fact that wages in urban areas had to keep up with the higher cost of living there. This thus impacted the average monthly incomes of the largely rural-based Bumiputera and the largely urban-based ethnic Chinese . "

Basically, it seems more like political propaganda that the MCs are so far ahead of the rest of the population. Similar thing seems to be going on in Indonesia where the Chinese are an even smaller percentage of the population.

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Re: Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

Post by MOCHS » Mon, 31 Jan 2022 7:34 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 30 Jan 2022 9:54 pm
I wish your husband could have grown up in my neck of the woods, where underprivileged whites were the norm, trailer trash, stoners, hillbillies, with a smattering of inbreds too. Heck, people of color were often better off and felt sorry for all the poor white who just can’t catch a break.

From my perspective, this idea of white privilege is just a liberal narrative that elite whites in their ivory towers came up with. I never saw it on the ground where I came from. I believe that is why there is so much division in America today, the elites are simply out of touch with reality.

There is privilege alright, but I believe it’s more about money than skin color.
He’s born and raised in the South (his family doesn’t subscribe to Southern beliefs, they moved there ‘cos of jobs and it’s cheaper), hardly considered rich & elite, middle class at most. Not your typical “SG expat” since I earn more than him. He has seen all you described.

Just because the minorities moved away from the “trashy” areas doesn’t mean they are living it up in the cities. It has been observed that one does get treated better by the cops based on skin colour, poor white men included.

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