Rental spaces barring certain races openly

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 5:37 pm

But from a legal standpoint, there are no grounds as it is not technically racism. Sorry x9200, but I have to disagree. If you own something it is purely your own preference in the eyes of the law, not what is actually in your heart/mind, which is subjective at best.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by smoulder » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 5:47 pm

Lawful or unlawful - doesn't dictate whether an act is racist or not. Some people are casually racist all the time - little things like jokes for instance. Does it mean that it's not racist? I don't think so.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 7:56 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 5:47 pm
Lawful or unlawful - doesn't dictate whether an act is racist or not. Some people are casually racist all the time - little things like jokes for instance. Does it mean that it's not racist? I don't think so.
Sorry, I cannot answer that. I don't live in an ideal world and learned to give and take 74 years ago. If a conversation goes beyond my threshold I just walk away. But it takes a lot. I don't intend to debate racism to the nth degree as it serves no real purpose as everybody tolerance level is different. Sadly, today, everybody is so thin-skinned it really getting pathetic. They cannot even figure out what their gender is. So they stay offended over anything and everything. They wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes in front of Archie Bunker.

Question, are you racist if you make fun of your own race? Self deprecating, yes. but racist? If what was said was true, is it racism or a statement of fact that gets laughter when said out loud?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by smoulder » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 8:20 pm

I had another experience early on in Singapore. Nothing to do with renting apartments. A recruitment agency sent my resume to some local IT company. I didn't hear back for a while.

The agency person was a friend of my wife so my wife asked what had happened. The feedback was that they don't recruit Indians. This without even meeting me to see whether I fit the culture. Anyone want to bet that the same guy doesn't rent to Indians?

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by x9200 » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 8:40 pm

SMS, I think you mean there is difficulty to deliver a proof, but would you consider legally safe, say, going to a clinic and announcing, you would like to see a Chinese doctor and not to see any doctor of an Indian race?
298A. Whoever —
[..]
(b) commits any act which he knows is prejudicial to the maintenance of harmony between different religious or racial groups and which disturbs or is likely to disturb the public tranquility,
shall be punished with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 3 years, or with fine, or with both.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 9:52 pm

This is often done in a country or area where there are different languages and inflections that could be either misread or misdiagnosed. So yes, I'd say it is legally safe to want to make sure your nuances are understood, especially like when consulting professional help, like doctors, dentists, lawyers where language is of extreme importance as is nuance and inflection.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 9:55 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 8:20 pm
I had another experience early on in Singapore. Nothing to do with renting apartments. A recruitment agency sent my resume to some local IT company. I didn't hear back for a while.

The agency person was a friend of my wife so my wife asked what had happened. The feedback was that they don't recruit Indians. This without even meeting me to see whether I fit the culture. Anyone want to bet that the same guy doesn't rent to Indians?
Just out of curiosity sake, was this pre or post 2011 GE?
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by smoulder » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:00 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 9:55 pm
smoulder wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 8:20 pm
I had another experience early on in Singapore. Nothing to do with renting apartments. A recruitment agency sent my resume to some local IT company. I didn't hear back for a while.

The agency person was a friend of my wife so my wife asked what had happened. The feedback was that they don't recruit Indians. This without even meeting me to see whether I fit the culture. Anyone want to bet that the same guy doesn't rent to Indians?
Just out of curiosity sake, was this pre or post 2011 GE?
Post. Around 2014.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by smoulder » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:05 pm

By the way SMS, we are probably digressing, but the way I see any tension between local Indians and those from India - local Indians are proud to be Singaporean and not from a third world country. Those that don't like Indian nationals often cite us being casteist. And the ones from India who look down on local Indians probably do it because they are proud of their castes - those marrying Chinese girls are outliers; I've seen more local Indian men than India Indians with local Chinese wives and girlfriends. India Indians tend to stick to their own communities and castes when it comes to marriage.
Last edited by smoulder on Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:07 pm

Oh, I can think of another reason as well. I've worked in a company that was 100% Chinese but all could speak English (with clients I might add) but in the office and lunchtimes I was the coal miner in the snow storm as all would be speaking Mandarin or dialect an no English so I didn't feel welcome. Some offices do that just because of the problem which is endemic here as you already know.

So this came about after the incidences in Changi IT centre business were caught with Indian HR Mgrs who originally came here and rose through the ranks till they controlled the hiring processes and were ONLY hiring Indians from the Subcontinent for the IT departments to the chagrin of the locals. It was a big deal and the government only paid lip service to the issue for the next 4 years until it again reared it's ugly head during the 2015 GE. What would you expect employers to do considering they got caught abusing processes.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:15 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:05 pm
By the way SMS, we are probably digressing, but the way I see any tension between local Indians and those from India - local Indians are proud to be Singaporean and not from a third world country. Those that don't like Indian nationals often cite us being casteist. And the ones from India who look down on local Indians probably do it because they are proud of their castes - those marrying Chinese girls are outliers; I've seen more local Indian men than India Indians with local Chinese wives and girlfriends. India Indians tend to stick to their own communities and castes when it comes to marriage.
Most of the local Indians I know don't use caste as a frame of reference but instead use "prideful" when referring to Indian Nationals. And the number of Indian nationals we've had on this board over the last 18 years that married local Chinese girls trying to get PR are numerous. (But as I mentioned earlier, I am basing this on the 'whole' subcontinent which also includes countries that formerly were part of greater India at one time.

Fair enough, I guess. We are talking about different time frames. I've been here 40 years and married to a no caste local Indian for 39 of them. Actually she has no caste as she was born in Singapore 75 years ago and is Catholic.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by the observer » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:24 pm

Old news. Bantered before. Ever heard of google?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26832115


Reasons cited are per the article above.


Also,

Article 12 of Singapore's constitution says:
(1) All persons are equal before the law and entitled to the equal protection of the law.
(2) Except as expressly authorised by this Constitution, there shall be no discrimination against citizens of Singapore on the ground only of religion, race, descent or place of birth in any law or in the appointment to any office or employment under a public authority or in the administration of any law relating to the acquisition, holding or disposition of property or the establishing or carrying on of any trade, business, profession, vocation or employment.
Experts say the article can be used by a citizen against the state, but cannot be relied upon to seek legal redress against another individual or legal entity.

The UN has noted that article 12(2) does not extend its protection to non-citizens of Singapore.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by the observer » Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:32 pm

the observer wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:24 pm
Old news. Bantered before. Ever heard of google?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26832115


Reasons cited are per the article above.


Also,

Article 12 of Singapore's constitution says:
(1) All persons are equal before the law and entitled to the equal protection of the law.
(2) Except as expressly authorised by this Constitution, there shall be no discrimination against citizens of Singapore on the ground only of religion, race, descent or place of birth in any law or in the appointment to any office or employment under a public authority or in the administration of any law relating to the acquisition, holding or disposition of property or the establishing or carrying on of any trade, business, profession, vocation or employment.
Experts say the article can be used by a citizen against the state, but cannot be relied upon to seek legal redress against another individual or legal entity.

The UN has noted that article 12(2) does not extend its protection to non-citizens of Singapore.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rries.html

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-17/ ... a/10129418

Happening elsewhere too.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 01 Nov 2021 1:00 am

tiktok wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:06 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 3:35 am
tiktok wrote:
Fri, 29 Oct 2021 2:03 pm
I just saw an ad on . with "Chinese Race Only". I can't believe this is legal, let alone this kind of backwards third world mindset exists. It's sickening.
Unfortunately you don’t just see this in Singapore, in most countries with a dominant race there is a tendency to prefer their own race. Just human nature, not right, but human nature.
By all means choose your friends, spouse and even business partners based on race. But the problem is when one race, particularly the dominant disadvantages other races. That's not preference, it's discrimination. "Human nature" is no excuse.

Western countries learned this is wrong after Jim Crow, apartheid, Canada"s Chinese head tax, the white Australia policy and so on. That's why a rental ad with "white race only" is not only unacceptable but illegal in most of them.
I’m not excusing it, nor do I agree with it. I think its obviously discriminatory behavior and I would never partake in it but seeing as there is nothing stopping them from doing that legally there really is nothing more to do except talk about it.

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Re: Rental spaces barring certain races openly

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 01 Nov 2021 1:04 am

smoulder wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 10:54 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 30 Oct 2021 3:35 am
tiktok wrote:
Fri, 29 Oct 2021 2:03 pm
I just saw an ad on . with "Chinese Race Only". I can't believe this is legal, let alone this kind of backwards third world mindset exists. It's sickening.
Unfortunately you don’t just see this in Singapore, in most countries with a dominant race there is a tendency to prefer their own race. Just human nature, not right, but human nature.
Yes true. Don't know if it's only my perception, but I feel like here there are less people who are willing to at least discuss the issue of racism which would be a start.
I think generally people here like to sweep things under the rock. We avoid discussing controversial topic for fear of disagreeing. While this means we avoid riots and big protests, it also means we’ve progressed very little as a society.

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