Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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MOCHS
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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by MOCHS » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 1:44 pm

sms has always said to have a Plan B in case PR or SC application is rejected.

Is it necessary to be so aggressive with your posts anyway? You can’t read tone of voice via text and I wasn’t being hostile.

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by smoulder » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 2:12 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 1:44 pm
sms has always said to have a Plan B in case PR or SC application is rejected.

Is it necessary to be so aggressive with your posts anyway? You can’t read tone of voice via text and I wasn’t being hostile.
My apologies. I wasn't intending to sound aggressive. Just typing quick messages in the middle of doing a lot of other things.

But anyway. PR doesn't bind you to a country. That would be citizenship. While it's true that PR is a stepping stone to citizenship, citizenship is not the only logical option. And this is from both parties point of view - if on the one hand, the government can reject your citizenship application (because they have second thoughts about you), on the other hand the individual can also decide against citizenship (they have second thoughts).

Just being the devil's advocate here even though my own long term plan is to stay put.

Also, even with citizenship, there's no guarantee that people will stay put. If that was the case, I wouldn't have moved here, you would be in China, SMS in the US and there would be no Singaporeans moving overseas either. Immigration is all about individuals seeking better (perceived) options and that is inherently a selfish pursuit.

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by malcontent » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 2:40 pm

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 2:12 pm
Immigration is all about individuals seeking better (perceived) options and that is inherently a selfish pursuit.
I guess that’s why I’ve remained on an EP for the last 2.5 decades. I just never saw how PR was as a better option. I did apply for PR once, back in 1999, but it was rejected. I never applied again. Had they approved it back then, I don’t think I’d be any better off today, since my employer has made me whole on CPF.

I think it’s wise to approach immigration here with some trepidation. In Singapore it is almost akin to a relationship with a significant other — if you take the relationship to the next level, there is no going back to just being friends, and not easy to come back from a break-up or divorce either, unless you are really that irresistible knight in shining armor.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by malcontent » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 3:00 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 12:42 am
Right. A small country like Singapore values loyalty over nearly everything else
In the case of Singapore, I think loyalty is tough sell. Singapore is just a small island city state, with some unique challenges, constraints and obligations for would-be citizens. Although the number of citizens renouncing here seems small, the number is actually similar to the number of Americans renouncing each year, and that is with a population that is many multiples higher (not to mention a hostile citizenship based taxation system that is outside of global norms).

When I first arrived here in 1996 I rented an HDB room in a middle-class Singaporean household. The husband was quick to point out that Singapore is only a good place if you are rich. And if you think about it… for anyone with a 7 figure annual salary, the tax savings versus most developed countries can easily run into 6 figures. Over the years I have become convinced that Singapore is a place to make money, not spend money.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by malcontent » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 3:40 pm

crunchlax wrote:
Thu, 21 Oct 2021 3:15 pm
Does Singapore allow me to hold both SG PR and US green card at the same time? Ignoring the fact that it may not be possible to maintain/extend both.
I will be putting this to the test. In fact, I plan to file a petition for US permanent residence for my wife by year end or early next. The entire process can take as long as 2 years, but it is also possible to delay things at certain stages if things happen faster than expected.

Definitely there could be a lot of explaining to do when she tries to renew her REP in 2026. If rejected, she will probably fly back to Singapore before her REP expires and not fly out again until they renew her REP. She won’t take it lying down! My daughter is also a PR and will be a university student at the time. I suspect she should be able to renew her REP as long as she is a full time student in the US (one would hope).
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by MOCHS » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 6:03 pm

^ I thought one could only file for US green card after being in the US physically for 5 (or was it 3) years? That’s what I read the last time I checked. You mean it can be done irrespective of the location?

I vaguely remember my poly classmate being on the US fiancée visa and then applied for the green card after marriage. She said she could not leave the country during the green card application process.

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 8:20 pm

Yeah, a lot has changed since I applied for my wife's green card back in the early '80's. Was applied for over here. Granted and all we had to do was fly to the US to get finalized and then a chop once a year in the US to maintain it. All was taken care of here (application) and landing in Hawaii and finalizing. After three years we decided we weren't going back anytime soon, so we just gave it up. At that time I was working with/for the UNHCR resettling VN refugees and I actually shared an office with the US INS officer in International Plaza as my resettlement cases when through him so I spent a lot of time there. He told me back then that as she has already been vetted and was giving it up voluntarily, that when I decide to go back permanently to the US, just reapply 3 months before anticipated departure date.

Sadly a lot has happened since 1988 so I doubt it will be an easy task, but more like starting over. But I doubt it's happening anyway, so no issue.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by malcontent » Tue, 26 Oct 2021 10:37 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 6:03 pm
^ I thought one could only file for US green card after being in the US physically for 5 (or was it 3) years? That’s what I read the last time I checked. You mean it can be done irrespective of the location?

I vaguely remember my poly classmate being on the US fiancée visa and then applied for the green card after marriage. She said she could not leave the country during the green card application process.
The 5 years of physical residence is the normal time required before a PR can apply for US citizenship. However, spouses of US citizens are in a special category and can do it in just 3 years. Spouses of employees of US companies overseas have an even quicker path that requires 0 years spent in the US.

What we are talking about here is PR though.

I helped my brother get his now wife a fiancée visa (K1) back in 2019. It took one full year to complete the process from the date the petition was filed to visa in hand. She is a Filipina and was working in Saudi as a nurse, and she actually had to extend her 1 year contract by a couple of extra weeks. Fortunately her visa came into the Riyadh embassy just days before her work permit expired!

How long this process takes has varied considerably over the years. During Covid things got backed up and never really recovered. The process and timing for a spouse and a fiancée visa are very similar.

The process that SMS went through is still available today but only under a narrow set of certain circumstances. That would be considerably faster, but you need to substantiate it, for example a letter from your employer stating that you will be transferred back to the US in a short period of time.

The requirement for the petitioner to reside in the US can be a problem for some, but if you work for a US company overseas, or like me, have earned 10 years of social security credits while married to that spouse, you’ll be exempt.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 27 Oct 2021 2:21 am

Myasis Dragon wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 7:42 am
Singapore PR is not really "permanent" at all. It can be yanked at any time and for most any reason, chiefly that you don't have a job. It's closer to a super employment pass, with terms and conditions.

US PR really is permanent. You don't need to be employed. You can live under a freeway overpass if you want. You only lose PR if you are convicted of illegal acts or you fail to live in the USA for extended periods.

I would certainly ensure that I meet all USA PR residency requirements, never mind the Singapore PR.
Fair point. In the US, once you’ve obtained permanente residency, you’re set. No one will notice or hassle you unless you force them to notice you.

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Re: Does Singapore allow dual permanent residency? (SG and US)

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 27 Oct 2021 2:23 am

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 2:12 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Tue, 26 Oct 2021 1:44 pm
sms has always said to have a Plan B in case PR or SC application is rejected.

Is it necessary to be so aggressive with your posts anyway? You can’t read tone of voice via text and I wasn’t being hostile.
My apologies. I wasn't intending to sound aggressive. Just typing quick messages in the middle of doing a lot of other things.

But anyway. PR doesn't bind you to a country. That would be citizenship. While it's true that PR is a stepping stone to citizenship, citizenship is not the only logical option. And this is from both parties point of view - if on the one hand, the government can reject your citizenship application (because they have second thoughts about you), on the other hand the individual can also decide against citizenship (they have second thoughts).

Just being the devil's advocate here even though my own long term plan is to stay put.

Also, even with citizenship, there's no guarantee that people will stay put. If that was the case, I wouldn't have moved here, you would be in China, SMS in the US and there would be no Singaporeans moving overseas either. Immigration is all about individuals seeking better (perceived) options and that is inherently a selfish pursuit.
Last line sums it all up. Well put. Its just that there’s a difference between purely self-serving immigration and “ethical” immigration where there is a genuine effort to contribute and give back.

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