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Where will you retire?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:45 pm

I'm afraid I have to disagree, PPF. I'm a long term PR (over quarter of a century). In the early days I didn't know where I would retire so I always left a return to the US open. I had two children by a Sg mother but both had dual citizenship from birth (cannot quite pull it off today). They each had two birth certificates (two Sg ones and two US ones before the status changes "Birth Certificate of a US Citizen Born Abroad". So were citizens by birth to both countries. So with that in mind and the fact that in the beginning I got my wife her US Green card (but later gave it up as well). By the time the kids finished schools they were fully immersed in local culture and were dating and subsequently married local spouses. Today I also have 3 local Grand Kids. So, now I've given both of my children to Singapore. My son did his NS in the SG Navy and my daughter has produced 2 future NS men as well. My son has furnished a future NS baby oven and work on at least 1 more but they are hoping for 2 more.

The subsidies I received as a PR are minimal at best compared with what it was 20 years ago. The fact that I can apply for and get SGC even though I've retired is a bonus I didn't count on and am seriously thinking of taking advantage of it (retired parents of Singapore citizens (I have two of them). My home is paid for here. I haven't even bothered to start taking CPF other than for the occasional polyclinic bill from my medisave. I'm not a burden on Singapore but I have given handsomely to their future manpower needs. Oh, and I have been and still am an active RC member in our Estate for the last 14 years. In fact, I have been an Assistant Office holder for the past 8 years - Can't hold a higher position because I'm not SGC. I sold my cars years ago and drove a company car the last 3 years before I retired in March of 2019. I can live here very economically, if the truth be known.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:52 pm

PPF, as an addendum to the above, giving elderly PRs or allowing them to stay as PRs also has the added advantage to Singapore as if they give up their PR without taking up SGC and they had local families like I did, they take a chance of losing one PR (no bid deal) but also take the chance of losing all the SGC offspring as well, and if, like mine, that is quite a loss to the country. (My son-in-law is a SGArmy Captain as well).
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:57 pm

Sometimes it's a choice. Sometimes it may not be - imagine someone who tried to become an SC but was rejected. Then when he's retired, they decide that they won't renew his REP. This is probably a hypothetical scenario, but there is a fear that could happen.

The other thing is that the world over, PRs come and PRs go without becoming citizens - unfortunately, that's just how it goes and it's probably better to be pragmatic about it rather than get upset over it.

PS - My own plan is to retire here. I hope to become a citizen. If for some reason, they reject me, you can be sure that's going to give my wife and I the jitters later in life.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:03 pm

It’s not my intention to start a bonfire here but too often, I’ve heard many cases of PRs just using SG as a stepping stone and jumping ship when there are better opportunities.

Take my ex-colleague for example. For the longest time, she stayed as a SPR and did not want to take up citizenship as she thought she would go home to Shanghai to retire since retirees get a monthly pension, if I’m not wrong.

Then when her sister-in-law got a US green card, she was keen to have a green card too, and eventually US citizenship. The idea was to have the SIL help apply green card for her brother (who is my ex-colleague’s husband) and when his green card approved, the husband will then help to apply for the rest of the family.

So she converted to SC when her child entered sec sch and maybe being a Singaporean might be looked upon favourably for green card application? The plan is for the whole family to uproot and move to USA when the child enters college.

On top of that, she decided to only list herself as owner of the HDB while husband bought a condo and rented it out. Then when the daughter went into a sec sch that was far away from their HDB, they decided to rent out the HDB too and rent a place closer to the sec such.

Maybe one might call that playing smart. I call it playing with the system. I’m sure there are plenty of PRs that hold property here in SG and rent them out while they relax back in their home country.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:06 pm

Yep, very true. The locals taught them very well how to game the system.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:29 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:52 pm
PPF, as an addendum to the above, giving elderly PRs or allowing them to stay as PRs also has the added advantage to Singapore as if they give up their PR without taking up SGC and they had local families like I did, they take a chance of losing one PR (no bid deal) but also take the chance of losing all the SGC offspring as well, and if, like mine, that is quite a loss to the country. (My son-in-law is a SGArmy Captain as well).
yes, I agree with that and the family ties PRs are kind of a different category, especially if it's just one extra head, and gives 3-5 SCs as a added bonus. I was more referring to full PR family who don't convert to citizenship.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:31 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:03 pm
It’s not my intention to start a bonfire here but too often, I’ve heard many cases of PRs just using SG as a stepping stone and jumping ship when there are better opportunities.

Take my ex-colleague for example. For the longest time, she stayed as a SPR and did not want to take up citizenship as she thought she would go home to Shanghai to retire since retirees get a monthly pension, if I’m not wrong.

Then when her sister-in-law got a US green card, she was keen to have a green card too, and eventually US citizenship. The idea was to have the SIL help apply green card for her brother (who is my ex-colleague’s husband) and when his green card approved, the husband will then help to apply for the rest of the family.

So she converted to SC when her child entered sec sch and maybe being a Singaporean might be looked upon favourably for green card application? The plan is for the whole family to uproot and move to USA when the child enters college.

On top of that, she decided to only list herself as owner of the HDB while husband bought a condo and rented it out. Then when the daughter went into a sec sch that was far away from their HDB, they decided to rent out the HDB too and rent a place closer to the sec such.

Maybe one might call that playing smart. I call it playing with the system. I’m sure there are plenty of PRs that hold property here in SG and rent them out while they relax back in their home country.
I think it's good to have this conversation as part of a "where will you retire" discussion. Very relevant and certainly adds another dimension to the discussion.

I just wonder though why such a thing would be unique to Singapore - I believe it isn't. Immigration is all about opportunism. I'm sure your ancestors were opportunistic when they landed here. I know I have been opportunistic by taking up a PR and I will probably be that if and when they approve my SC application. I'm sure you or any other Singaporean who emigrates (there are some you know), will also be similarly opportunistic.

Obviously the gahmen has realized this has a viewpoint that because of the unique nature of this country, they prefer now to give out PRs to people that they have assessed to be more likely to be loyal to Singapore.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:34 pm

I think there is quite a big difference of someone who takes PR for 5-10 years and moves ahead, vs someone who works until retirement 20-30 years as PR and then leaves the country.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:43 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:45 pm
The fact that I can apply for and get SGC even though I've retired is a bonus I didn't count on and am seriously thinking of taking advantage of it (retired parents of Singapore citizens (I have two of them)
Interesting, I though there was an age limit of 50 or something to apply/convert to SGC.
This would then basically apply to almost all family ties PRs, assuming of course that they have kids. and would give a bit more thinking time.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:49 pm

smoulder wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:31 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:03 pm
It’s not my intention to start a bonfire here but too often, I’ve heard many cases of PRs just using SG as a stepping stone and jumping ship when there are better opportunities.

Take my ex-colleague for example. For the longest time, she stayed as a SPR and did not want to take up citizenship as she thought she would go home to Shanghai to retire since retirees get a monthly pension, if I’m not wrong.

Then when her sister-in-law got a US green card, she was keen to have a green card too, and eventually US citizenship. The idea was to have the SIL help apply green card for her brother (who is my ex-colleague’s husband) and when his green card approved, the husband will then help to apply for the rest of the family.

So she converted to SC when her child entered sec sch and maybe being a Singaporean might be looked upon favourably for green card application? The plan is for the whole family to uproot and move to USA when the child enters college.

On top of that, she decided to only list herself as owner of the HDB while husband bought a condo and rented it out. Then when the daughter went into a sec sch that was far away from their HDB, they decided to rent out the HDB too and rent a place closer to the sec such.

Maybe one might call that playing smart. I call it playing with the system. I’m sure there are plenty of PRs that hold property here in SG and rent them out while they relax back in their home country.
I think it's good to have this conversation as part of a "where will you retire" discussion. Very relevant and certainly adds another dimension to the discussion.

I just wonder though why such a thing would be unique to Singapore - I believe it isn't. Immigration is all about opportunism. I'm sure your ancestors were opportunistic when they landed here. I know I have been opportunistic by taking up a PR and I will probably be that if and when they approve my SC application. I'm sure you or any other Singaporean who emigrates (there are some you know), will also be similarly opportunistic.

Obviously the gahmen has realized this has a viewpoint that because of the unique nature of this country, they prefer now to give out PRs to people that they have assessed to be more likely to be loyal to Singapore.
Definitely agree with you here. If I had not got my PR the time I got it, we would not have moved here, but to Australia. Whose loss or win is of course a matter of opinion, but it is still 3 SGCs more based on that decision, one of which will do NS. Next generation is too early to say.

For some of those situation when certain nationalities use Singapore as a stepping stone, like many Indians and Filipinos, can't really blame them, when they don't really have equal chances to stay and integrate here. So it's quite understandable that they continue to AUS/NZ or US/CAN if they have the opportunity.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 7:47 pm

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:49 pm


For some of those situation when certain nationalities use Singapore as a stepping stone, like many Indians and Filipinos, can't really blame them, when they don't really have equal chances to stay and integrate here. So it's quite understandable that they continue to AUS/NZ or US/CAN if they have the opportunity.
Yes I agree with you. This is an important point. I myself am Indian and probably considered to be reasonably well integrated being married to an SC (former Malaysian citizen).

But I have to say that I get treated quite differently compared to the average Indian and it certainly helps with my whole integration experience. And the reason is entirely because I am not recognizable as an Indian until I mention that I am and even then it's just a reaction of disbelief.

On the other hand I know what it's like to be turned down when I enquire about renting a house - they don't bother hiding the reason why. This is when I'm an Indian name without the non Indian looking face to connect back to. So I can imagine how it feels to be treated like an outsider, being called vulgarities such as "sai" on an almost daily basis.

Now I know that there are at times more severe racism that people can experience in various western countries, but it's a chance that some people are willing to live with - *maybe* encounter a few really bad ones or definitely experience low key but humiliating ones on a more regular basis.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 8:34 pm

I don’t know if it’s a country specific “stereotype” but my current colleague, who is now a SC but was previously a Chinese national does know of other Chinese SPRs/SCs who game the system and she hates that too. Unfortunately she says such people who are given an inch and take a mile can be common back in her homeland.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 8:36 pm

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:43 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:45 pm
The fact that I can apply for and get SGC even though I've retired is a bonus I didn't count on and am seriously thinking of taking advantage of it (retired parents of Singapore citizens (I have two of them)
Interesting, I though there was an age limit of 50 or something to apply/convert to SGC.
This would then basically apply to almost all family ties PRs, assuming of course that they have kids. and would give a bit more thinking time.
Check item 5.

https://www.ica.gov.sg/reside/citizenship/apply
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 8:39 pm

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 6:43 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:45 pm
The fact that I can apply for and get SGC even though I've retired is a bonus I didn't count on and am seriously thinking of taking advantage of it (retired parents of Singapore citizens (I have two of them)
Interesting, I though there was an age limit of 50 or something to apply/convert to SGC.
This would then basically apply to almost all family ties PRs, assuming of course that they have kids. and would give a bit more thinking time.
Check item 5.

https://www.ica.gov.sg/reside/citizenship/apply

Obviously there are other things to consider as well but considering all I am and have been involved in here....
NOTE: ICA takes into account factors such as the individual's family ties to Singaporeans, economic contributions, qualifications, age, family profile and length of residency, to assess the applicant's ability to contribute to Singapore and integrate into our society, as well as his or her commitment to sinking roots.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:45 pm
The fact that I can apply for and get SGC even though I've retired is a bonus I didn't count on and am seriously thinking of taking advantage of it (retired parents of Singapore citizens (I have two of them).
I think the policies have gotten more family focused over the years, which is a good thing.

If you did convert, you’ll probably lose 25.5% of your social security check as a non-resident alien (30% withholding on 85% of the amount), but you should still receive it, since the credits were earned in the US. At least you won’t have to file taxes anymore, that’s a big plus. And, with a Singapore passport you can still visit the US without a visa. Just make sure you don’t keep more than $60k in US assets, because the estate tax for non-resident aliens is a killer.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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