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Where will you retire?

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Lisafuller
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:43 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 9:19 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 2:33 am
Which part of the US are you planning on settling in? Are both kids the same age, or is just one going to be of age for college but the whole family will move?
Daughter starts college in fall of 2024, son in fall of 2026. Whole family has to move in order to get in-state tuition. Location depends on what school she gets into, but I think it would be nice for them to experience the 4 seasons. I also have family in Michigan and an employer in Illinois, so that may play in.
I see, UMich is a really reputable school so she may want to consider that.

Lisafuller
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:46 am

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:14 pm
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 9:19 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 2:33 am
Which part of the US are you planning on settling in? Are both kids the same age, or is just one going to be of age for college but the whole family will move?
Daughter starts college in fall of 2024, son in fall of 2026. Whole family has to move in order to get in-state tuition. Location depends on what school she gets into, but I think it would be nice for them to experience the 4 seasons. I also have family in Michigan and an employer in Illinois, so that may play in.
Be prepared that after 4-5 years, depending on your age too if course, you might wanna move back.

Got a colleague who is just in that situation, he's younger one just started college this year. They've been back to US 4+ years now, after 12 years in Asia. He's 50+ but now he's looking to get back to Singapore.
Why would they want to do that? The only reason I could see somewhat picking Asia over the states for retirement is to enjoy a lower cost of living but Singapore is an anomaly, and is much more expensive than nearly every part of the US.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:48 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 5:00 pm
There is actually a deadline once my wife begins US residency in 2024, because of the “covered expatriate” rule (this rule was added thanks to Eduardo Saverin who cut and run to Singapore from the US to avoid taxes on his Facebook billions).

That means by the end of 2030 we will need to decide if we want to become tax refugees or just accept permanent US personhood and the tax and reporting obligations that comes with it. Way too far down the road to imagine right now!
Wow, I had no idea they were so rigid. Good thing you have a lot of time to make the decision.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:52 am

smoulder wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 5:05 pm
By the way, I just want to say this for all the US folks. I've been to the US a few times - around the west coast. It is absolutely beautiful - especially California where you have everything from beaches and ocean to mountains and snow. Except for the food part (I'm biased towards Asia), I think the US is a great place to retire if you can, at least whatever I've seen so far.
Completely agree. Much lower cost of living, greater abundance of land, slower pace of life, and such a variety of living environments, whether it is farm or city life that you fancy.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:54 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 6:00 pm
Fortunately my wife and and kids are a more flexible on the food side. Thank goodness for that, because no matter where you go, local food is typically the best food. The US is no exception in that regard. My list of go-to places seems to grow longer each time we visit. And, you might be surprised, at least one type of Asian food in the US is more authentic and better quality than Singapore… Vietnamese food! Hong Kong Dim Sum is also better than Singapore, if you know where to go.

Indian restaurants in the US can be hit or miss, but there is a surprisingly authentic one just five minutes from my brother’s home -

https://www.hillsideindiancuisine.com
Thai food as well! The nice thing about the US is that there are so many immigrants of different cultures that have come and set up shop there. Food is authentic, inexpensive, and delicious.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:55 am

smoulder wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 7:16 pm
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 6:00 pm
Fortunately my wife and and kids are a more flexible on the food side. Thank goodness for that, because no matter where you go, local food is typically the best food. The US is no exception in that regard. My list of go-to places seems to grow longer each time we visit. And, you might be surprised, at least one type of Asian food in the US is more authentic and better quality than Singapore… Vietnamese food! Hong Kong Dim Sum is also better than Singapore, if you know where to go.

Indian restaurants in the US can be hit or miss, but there is a surprisingly authentic one just five minutes from my brother’s home -

https://www.hillsideindiancuisine.com
Oh don't get me wrong. I enjoy food wherever I go. I just have a taste for South east Asian and east Asian food having lived here for long enough
The nice thing about the US is that there is such a great variety of food. If you know where to look, you’ll be able to find authentic fare from any cuisine you could possibly think of.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:57 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 9:32 pm
smoulder wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 7:16 pm
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 6:00 pm
Fortunately my wife and and kids are a more flexible on the food side. Thank goodness for that, because no matter where you go, local food is typically the best food. The US is no exception in that regard. My list of go-to places seems to grow longer each time we visit. And, you might be surprised, at least one type of Asian food in the US is more authentic and better quality than Singapore… Vietnamese food! Hong Kong Dim Sum is also better than Singapore, if you know where to go.

Indian restaurants in the US can be hit or miss, but there is a surprisingly authentic one just five minutes from my brother’s home -

https://www.hillsideindiancuisine.com
Oh don't get me wrong. I enjoy food wherever I go. I just have a taste for South east Asian and east Asian food having lived here for long enough
In that case you will probably like Mexican food in the US… they use many similar spices, the tortilla is much like a chapatti, and some dishes come with rice too. My favorite two foods are Mexican and Indian, even though I was raised on bland a western diet.

During dinner this evening I just asked my wife what her favorite restaurant was in the US and she mentioned a particular Mexican restaurant that we frequented as college students there 30 years ago, Chi Chi’s!
Chi Chi’s! Haven’t thought about that place in ages. I’m partial to Tex-mex, love Moe’s and Chilli’s.

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ProvenPracticalFlexible
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 10:16 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:46 am
ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 12:14 pm
malcontent wrote:
Wed, 22 Sep 2021 9:19 am


Daughter starts college in fall of 2024, son in fall of 2026. Whole family has to move in order to get in-state tuition. Location depends on what school she gets into, but I think it would be nice for them to experience the 4 seasons. I also have family in Michigan and an employer in Illinois, so that may play in.
Be prepared that after 4-5 years, depending on your age too if course, you might wanna move back.

Got a colleague who is just in that situation, he's younger one just started college this year. They've been back to US 4+ years now, after 12 years in Asia. He's 50+ but now he's looking to get back to Singapore.
Why would they want to do that? The only reason I could see somewhat picking Asia over the states for retirement is to enjoy a lower cost of living but Singapore is an anomaly, and is much more expensive than nearly every part of the US.
US cities, where the well paid IT jobs are, are equally if not more expensive than Singapore.

But that's not really the reason I think. I would probably use the term reverse culture shock here too. After more than a decade here, US might not feel the same that it was before. and if they enjoyed life here with the travel options and life style. Plus old friends might have moved on, so going back to US is not the same as it was when they left. Note also that he's not planning to retire yet but to work another 10 years or so, until over 60.

For fulltime retirement of course US does have Florida and Margaritaville :D .

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:14 pm

I’ve yet to be convinced that any whole city the US is comprehensively more expensive than Singapore on a true like for like basis. Housing is typically going to be your largest expense.

NYC is probably the closest, but you really need to zoom in on Manhattan specifically (which, to be fair, can really only be compared to the CCR in Singapore).

Here is a snippet from https://streeteasy.com/blog/price-per-s ... yc-trends/

The median price in 2019 for a square foot of apartment space in Manhattan was $1,319 — 46% above the citywide median. That makes it NYC’s most expensive borough, and, as New Yorkers know, a place where many apartments are comparatively tiny. But it’s still possible to stay in Manhattan and get a roomier home for a far lower price.

In Washington Heights, Manhattan’s most affordable neighborhood by price per square foot, $700K could theoretically get you a roomy 1,074-square-foot home. Statistically speaking, that’s three times more space than you’d get for the same amount of money in SoHo, the city’s most expensive neighborhood, where the median price per square foot is $2,023.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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ProvenPracticalFlexible
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 1:59 pm

I agree that it is difficult to compare.

Buying prices are likely to higher in Singapore than even the top cities in US, but if you look at rentals then it is a different story again. and if you buy your property than it's not any more only a living cost item, but also a capital investment where you'd care more about increase in value. Like in Nordics, where I come from, you can basically get countryside or small town houses almost for free (say 60-80kEuros for 160-200m2 house) if you just take the burden of maintaining old properties (usually built in 60-70s). But I wouldn't compare those to Singapore, then in capitals prices for new properties are in pair to singapore, which is crazy for the size of cities we are talking about.

And though housing is often the largest single item, if you are eating out a lot, like more than 10 meals per week (pre-covid times of course) that can make a substantial difference too. It's a bit same Luckily Uber has made living/moving around without a car easier and cheaper in US.

If you check that numbeo site that SMS frequently shares, which to me look pretty realistic, main US cities look in many aspects same or more expensive than Singapore. I know it's an index, so everyone would have their own spending habits and living styles.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 2:09 pm

Food, groceries and buying a property are cheaper in most parts of the US from what I can see. Now healthcare - I'm not sure how that goes - I think for a retiree, that might possibly tip the balance.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 2:42 pm

Enlighten me, what’s the point of being a permanent resident if you’re not going to be here permanently like what the name suggests? Aren’t you just depriving other deserving applicants a PR vacancy? Just milk SG for its worth for your benefit during your younger years and say buhbye when it’s convenient and cheaper?

While it may not be as clear cut as I make it out to be, it does raise eyebrows.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 2:53 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 2:42 pm
Enlighten me, what’s the point of being a permanent resident if you’re not going to be here permanently like what the name suggests? Aren’t you just depriving other deserving applicants a PR vacancy? Just milk SG for its worth for your benefit during your younger years and say buhbye when it’s convenient and cheaper?

While it may not be as clear cut as I make it out to be, it does raise eyebrows.
Who's this for?

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:15 pm

Mostly to people with PRs participating in this thread.

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ProvenPracticalFlexible
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Thu, 23 Sep 2021 3:26 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Thu, 23 Sep 2021 2:42 pm
Enlighten me, what’s the point of being a permanent resident if you’re not going to be here permanently like what the name suggests? Aren’t you just depriving other deserving applicants a PR vacancy? Just milk SG for its worth for your benefit during your younger years and say buhbye when it’s convenient and cheaper?

While it may not be as clear cut as I make it out to be, it does raise eyebrows.
So, do you really think that Singapore is looking to have extra retirees hanging around when they've done working? Wouldn't it be rather ideal that PRs, who haven't converted to SC, would pack their things and move away the day their stop working and thus contributing to the GDP. Unless they are really wealthy of course and consume like a good tourist or business traveler.

I mean most developed economies are having the problem of too many old people vs working age. But it's hard to kick out your citizens.

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