Where will you retire?

[PNGMK]

Mal - three advantage to being a retired PR "here" is owning a HDB as a bolt hole (cheap really) and having access to semi-subsidised medical care and thirdly CPF life payments.

No need to live here but important to have PR for these. That's my plan.

[malcontent]

Thanks for the suggestion smoulder, yes perhaps I should explore Malaysia more as an option, given it still great for an English speaker there, similar to Singapore.

Another option that came to mind is just simply Oahu, Hawaii given that is pretty close to Asia in terms of demographics, but the high cost maybe an issue (Although maybe it works out to be similar to Singapore if you avoid the killer costs there, like eating out). Also I heard theft and homelessness can be bad there as well, as in many liberal cities in the US.

I’ve been to Oahu on 3 occasions. It’s a truly a wonderful place, the climate & scenery is just amazing. I especially love the far North, the Makaha/Waianae area is my personal fav, we stayed up there for a full two weeks once… it’s a bit of a long drive into town, but a thoroughly enjoyable drive, right along the coast. I do not believe costs there are higher than Singapore. They do have Walmart. Most prices are similar, except for things like milk which are double… but that is still half the price of Singapore!

[malcontent]

Mal - three advantage to being a retired PR "here" is owning a HDB as a bolt hole (cheap really) and having access to semi-subsidised medical care and thirdly CPF life payments.

No need to live here but important to have PR for these. That's my plan.

I guess I’ve never considered HDB flats to be especially cheap. You can get a nice freehold condo across the border for less than half the price of an HDB. My personal fav is Straits View, which is very similar to the condo I’m staying in now.

https://goo.gl/maps/yCjwH7uA8hhhTQfQ8

I know that currently they don’t allow foreigners to buy units that cheap, but wait for a crisis… in fact I think they recently dropped or were considering a drop in the minimum price.

Healthcare is important, and Singapore is clearly the place you want to be in this part of the world if you have something serious. However, it’s not so good if you have something rare. As someone I know found out — all the best doctors here estimated a month long hospital stay after an experimental hack job with 50/50 odds of success. They ended up flying to the US for surgery and were out the next day with 95% odds of success. But yes, if we do end up here in retirement, integrated shield plans can be extended to cover myself as a LTVP holder (hopefully that continues). That reminds me, I need to get my wife’s CPF-MA topped up to BHS, still a ways to go.

CPF LIFE payments are good and can go a long way outside Singapore. In Singapore, I don’t think it’s enough. Even with ERS, I’m estimating age 70 payments will be around US$2k. Fortunately we also have Social Security. Without that, our retirement would be a lot less secure.

[smoulder]

Interesting discussion. I don't think CPF life is a lot, but it should easily cover basic expenses in your old age - like groceries and utility bills.

[malcontent]

I am not a big fan of the PH I might add. Far too much crime there but I saying that I know a few offshore guys who have retired there and are fine so maybe it's just me.

The crime there is mostly petty, and as long as you are respectful of the locals, not showing off, not going to bars talking trash or asking for trouble, you’re not going to find it. If you do encounter trouble in the bar, the easy way out is to tell them you’ve got to go, but buy a free round before you do. On the face of it, crime rates seem high compared to other parts of Asia, but really nothing compared to Latin America. Mexico is definitely worse.

The best way to avoid being a target in the Philippines is to not exude money, pretend money is tight even when it’s not, be seen to be in financial distress, even if you’re not. Live well below your means, avoid material excess.. you’ll be just fine. This is especially so if you connect with other expats who have experience there. That is why Duma is so popular, you can learn the ropes more quickly when you’ve got experts advising you.

If anyone is considering the PH, I’d recommend spending a month or two up in the hills of Valencia, many newly arrived start out renting by the month at a place like these:

https://goo.gl/maps/j4BzoLi3JfP1D3SB6

https://goo.gl/maps/a4mLXzVgKwjWGCyGA

From there you can rent a scooter and explore the area, see how you like it, connect with other expats and get their views.

[malcontent]

Interesting discussion. I don't think CPF life is a lot, but it should easily cover basic expenses in your old age - like groceries and utility bills.

My condo maintenance fees are currently running $535/mo, utilities $400, and groceries around $1,000/mo for our family of 5 (including our helper). Considering inflation, CPF LIFE (ERS) might cover all that. I would need the escalating plan to keep covering it. I prefer the basic plan given a higher IRR is more likely.

Our biggest expense will be travel, and as we get older I can see us needing business class for long-haul flights - - intercontinental business class tickets might be our single our biggest expense in retirement! Just one pair of tickets can eat up an entire year of CPF LIFE!

[midlet2013]

Good discussion. We are PR so we would like to stay here when older for the most part. I don't mind citizenship if that works. I like Singapore. One of the things we want to do it travel. So I would like to go around the world , few weeks at a time and stay and relax. So, home here and travel around the world one country at a time.

[smoulder]

Interesting discussion. I don't think CPF life is a lot, but it should easily cover basic expenses in your old age - like groceries and utility bills.

My condo maintenance fees are currently running $535/mo, utilities $400, and groceries around $1,000/mo for our family of 5 (including our helper). Considering inflation, CPF LIFE (ERS) might cover all that. I would need the escalating plan to keep covering it. I prefer the basic plan given a higher IRR is more likely.

Our biggest expense will be travel, and as we get older I can see us needing business class for long-haul flights - - intercontinental business class tickets might be our single our biggest expense in retirement! Just one pair of tickets can eat up an entire year of CPF LIFE!

As retirees, it should just be your wife and you

Flight tickets aren't basic necessities.

All I'm saying is that I don't disagree with you that it will be hard to survive purely on CPF life. You definitely need to have your own retirement funds but it will surely be a useful thing to have in addition to your own retirement nest egg (referring to non CPF investments).

[malcontent]

In the US, the Social Security Administration comes out and states that retirement benefits are only expected to provide approximately 40% of your income needs in retirement.

It is interesting that no such guidance is given by CPF, but I think it should be less than 40% for most.

[PNGMK]

There's nothing to stop you keeping more than the ERS in CPF and drawing down 4% or so yearly at 1% per quarter in addition to the annuity. That is part of my plan. For me that is approx 2k per month in addition to the annuity.

[Addadude]

Well I've been informed by my SO (a Singapore citizen) that we will not be relocating when I retire so that decision has been taken out of my hands! And to be honest, I don't see myself actually retiring - as in completely stop working. I'm more likely to go move to some kind of freelance part-time role - say two or three days a week. I had a brief taster of it a few months ago when I was in between jobs and I really quite enjoyed it.

[malcontent]

There's nothing to stop you keeping more than the ERS in CPF and drawing down 4% or so yearly at 1% per quarter in addition to the annuity. That is part of my plan. For me that is approx 2k per month in addition to the annuity.

Using the SA shield technique?

I was thinking about doing that too, but my better half thinks it’s a waste… 4% interest, not exciting.

[PNGMK]

There's nothing to stop you keeping more than the ERS in CPF and drawing down 4% or so yearly at 1% per quarter in addition to the annuity. That is part of my plan. For me that is approx 2k per month in addition to the annuity.

Using the SA shield technique?

I was thinking about doing that too, but my better half thinks it’s a waste… 4% interest, not exciting.

No I missed that window. I was simply unaware of it

I would encourage her to do it. She can (provided she has the BRS and a pledged property) always withdraw from the OA and SA once 55 and the interest rate is not to be sneezed at, consider it the bond part of your portfolio. It will be years before we see a safe bond paying 4% again.

Even the OA at 2.5% is ok for a bond and my view is withdrawing 4% of the starting amount every year from 62.5 is not really a risk for me.

[malcontent]

As retirees, it should just be your wife and you

True, but without kids we will be eating out much much more, so I don’t expect too much saving on our food budget.

Flight tickets aren't basic necessities.

Try and tell my wife that!

I know what you are saying though, CPF LIFE is intended to be no-frills “survival money”, much like Social Security in the US. My parents also can survive on SS alone if they take no trips. But after they retired, they took at least one major trip each year for a full 30 years, only slowing down now in their mid-80’s.

And the way I look at it, if I’m grounded in retirement, might as well just put me in the ground early! Travel is a major priority for us. I still have close friends/family in the US, and would ideally want to spend the months of June, July & August each year in Michigan.

[malcontent]

There's nothing to stop you keeping more than the ERS in CPF and drawing down 4% or so yearly at 1% per quarter in addition to the annuity. That is part of my plan. For me that is approx 2k per month in addition to the annuity.

Using the SA shield technique?

I was thinking about doing that too, but my better half thinks it’s a waste… 4% interest, not exciting.

No I missed that window. I was simply unaware of it

I would encourage her to do it. She can (provided she has the BRS and a pledged property) always withdraw from the OA and SA once 55 and the interest rate is not to be sneezed at, consider it the bond part of your portfolio. It will be years before we see a safe bond paying 4% again.

Even the OA at 2.5% is ok for a bond and my view is withdrawing 4% of the starting amount every year from 62.5 is not really a risk for me.

I agree… but my wife is a 100% equities kinda gal. We’ll have to see if I can convince her.