Singapore Expats

Where will you retire?

Moving to Singapore? Ask our regular expats in Singapore questions on relocation and their experience here. Ask about banking, employment pass, insurance, visa, work permit, citizenship or immigration issues.
Post Reply
Lisafuller
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6244
Joined: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 11:45 pm
Answers: 3

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:45 am

smoulder wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 3:43 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:52 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 2:07 am
I feel that PRs should have the autonomy to choose when to stay and when to go.
I disagree. Then it defeats the purpose of PR in the first place. All over the world, no matter which country you go to, PR has always been a step towards citizenship. One takes PR because they want to settle permanently, it’s in the name. Or should it be renamed as “transient residency until retirement” then?

I do not fault PRs that do have intentions to become SCs but due to circumstances out of their control back home, they have no choice but choose to give it up.

But I do find it unsavoury if someone gets PR in the first place with the intention to never stay here forever. You don’t realise how privileged you are when most people in the world don’t have that luxury.

Yes, immigration is a multi-faceted issue but when PRs jumping ship happens so often, the citizens can’t help but feel jaded. Do these PRs really integrate? Do they really know the colloquial slang? Do they do what the locals do? Or do they stick to their condo enclave/expat bubble and never venture out into the heartlands.

People who get PRs in other Western countries almost always obtain citizenship there instead of just deciding to return back to their home countries. Why is this not the case in SG? Seems into be a “uniquely SG” thing.
While I've always considered that I have "integrated" as best as a foreigner can, I find these arguments about integration amusing at times. And I have consciously attempted to fit in rather than stay aloof from the local populace.

1. Integration is 2 ways. Read the points made about how certain groups are not quite welcomed for no reason other than their "race".

2. Immigration has rarely been about people integrating. It's only recently that this has become a factor. If your ancestors had integrated, you would be speaking Malay (I'm guessing that you are not Malay) - there would be no Chinese, Tamil or English spoken on this island, only Malay. I think a good dose of pragmatism and a whole lot less emotion is in order here. While the gahmen can certainly have a view of what they think is "sufficient" integration since they are the ones enforcing immigration, I wonder how common people like you can "measure" something intangible. How do you know what is sufficiently integrated.

By the way, I know of plenty of recent immigrants to the west who have taken up citizenship but still maintain alarmingly close ties with their former countries. Hardly something that happens exclusively here.
2 is a great point. We push integration but I think assimilation is more important. An ethnically diverse country like SG can never be fully homogenized and integrated, what’s more important is to make an effort to assimilate into the culture while still maintaining our own distinct cultural uniqueness.

MOCHS
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 905
Joined: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 8:43 pm
Answers: 2

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:33 am
How sweet, why SG for you? Is the US home for you too?
I’m born and bred here in SG, been living here all my life as a SG citizen. Family is here. I’m not an American, only visited the US as a tourist. Even though husband grew up in a red state, his parents & family are very liberal (housing is probably cheaper in the South?) He was concerned about my safety when orange man was in office so he decided to come to SG to be with me. I did see “how in your face” some of the religious & political billboards/ads are on the roads and husband was uncomfortable in letting me see that. I found the billboards to be highly amusing though.

He has been a small town guy all his life, never lived in any of the major big cities in the US so he took a while to adjust to the SG metropolis. He only misses nature & mountains and if there weren’t any travel restrictions, I would bring him around SEA to see the natural sights. My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.

I’m still waiting and see what are the results of SG’s “retirement HDB village” since it’s a fairly new concept.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 9:52 am

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:33 am
How sweet, why SG for you? Is the US home for you too?
I’m born and bred here in SG, been living here all my life as a SG citizen. Family is here. I’m not an American, only visited the US as a tourist. Even though husband grew up in a red state, his parents & family are very liberal (housing is probably cheaper in the South?) He was concerned about my safety when orange man was in office so he decided to come to SG to be with me. I did see “how in your face” some of the religious & political billboards/ads are on the roads and husband was uncomfortable in letting me see that. I found the billboards to be highly amusing though.

He has been a small town guy all his life, never lived in any of the major big cities in the US so he took a while to adjust to the SG metropolis. He only misses nature & mountains and if there weren’t any travel restrictions, I would bring him around SEA to see the natural sights. My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.

I’m still waiting and see what are the results of SG’s “retirement HDB village” since it’s a fairly new concept.
I came to Singapore from the US back before everything was viewed through the hyper-polarized lens of red/blue, right/left, etc… although it existed back then, it didn’t define people like it seems to today. What many Americans have forgotten is that we have way more in common than different.

This is why I try my best not to take sides, I don’t believe people are as liberal or conservative as they think they are. I would also say that many have been brainwashed by the media. After watching enough CNN or Fox, you can easily start to believe the different narratives they are pushing. I have stopped watching. I have a mind of my own. I just can’t agree with everything that one side or the other has on their agenda. In some matters like immigration and the environment, I might seem very liberal. But on social matters and fiscal responsibility, staunchly conservative. Neither political party has lived up to my expectation in any of these matters. Singapore is just about perfect in my ideal of fiscal conservatism.

BTW, I wonder if your husband even noticed or realizes that Singapore is VERY conservative on the political dial! It’s not talked about much, and I find it astonishing that those who claim to have strong political leanings often don’t even notice!
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

User avatar
ProvenPracticalFlexible
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 8:50 pm
Answers: 1
Location: East Coast

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:11 am

MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:52 am

Yes, immigration is a multi-faceted issue but when PRs jumping ship happens so often, the citizens can’t help but feel jaded. Do these PRs really integrate? Do they really know the colloquial slang? Do they do what the locals do? Or do they stick to their condo enclave/expat bubble and never venture out into the heartlands.

People who get PRs in other Western countries almost always obtain citizenship there instead of just deciding to return back to their home countries. Why is this not the case in SG? Seems into be a “uniquely SG” thing.
That kind of integration criteria would be quit difficult to define. Singlish language test anyone? Mandatory tour in AMK and Bedok HDB blocks, with multiple choice exam at the end. or living 1 year in HDB, taking away apartments from locals. Need to eat like locals, would any local cuisine count or does it have to be Singaporean Chinese?

Not to mention that there are also Singaporeans who don't speak singlish, and live in condo/landed bubbles and don't go to the HDB heartlands, or whose parents would disown their children if they married outside of their race.

NS probably the only place some locals are forced to integrate with the rest of the citizens.

Big difference is that in most of the Western countries (Germany being the notable exception) they allow dual citizenship, and thus it's much easier decision to make as you don't need to give up anything, but will gain another citizenship and passport.

MOCHS
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 905
Joined: Thu, 01 Aug 2019 8:43 pm
Answers: 2

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:29 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 9:52 am
BTW, I wonder if your husband even noticed or
realizes that Singapore is VERY conservative on the political dial! It’s not talked about much, and I find it astonishing that those who claim to have strong political leanings often don’t even notice!
Oh, he has noticed but chooses not to comment about it publicly. He studied media and so free speech is also quite important to him but again, keeps it to himself. I don’t want him to be arrested lol.

Hubby feels things in the US shifted after 9-11 and the whole “climate” slowly changed to what we see today.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:10 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am
My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.
I heard Cambodia has a 3 year “business” visa that doesn’t require you to conduct any business. Apparently that is the visa of choice among retirees there. Cambodia is definitely economical and has a lot of natural beauty. Infrastructure has been improving with Chinese money, but it’s still kinda rough - you need to be adventurous. Phnom Penh is a bit chaotic and polluted, but has it’s charm. Sihanoukville is the more popular place for expats and tourists, with some half-way decent beaches.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

midlet2013
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:56 am
Answers: 1

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by midlet2013 » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm

How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.

User avatar
ProvenPracticalFlexible
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 8:50 pm
Answers: 1
Location: East Coast

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:52 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 3:43 pm

By the way, I know of plenty of recent immigrants to the west who have taken up citizenship but still maintain alarmingly close ties with their former countries. Hardly something that happens exclusively here.
Indeed, most of Europe have this problem. France provably the largest with the Maghreb suburbs where youths who have born in France but still live another life not really integrated or allowed to integrate to the majority french system. Brussels has similar suburbs, no traditional Belgian would live in those areas. Sweden is getting there with some hoods managed by north African, middle Eastern and ex- Jugoslavian thugs instead of the police force. But as all would have a local passport you can't kick them out.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm

midlet2013 wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm
How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.
25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

midlet2013
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 10:56 am
Answers: 1

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by midlet2013 » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:19 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm
midlet2013 wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm
How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.
25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
Sounds good. I know the four percent rule. But I also hope I can go to space someday once it’s more affordable. So 25x is not good :)

Have u read the credit Suisse wealth distribution reports. Are they correct
Last edited by midlet2013 on Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
ProvenPracticalFlexible
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 491
Joined: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 8:50 pm
Answers: 1
Location: East Coast

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by ProvenPracticalFlexible » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:22 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm
midlet2013 wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm
How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.
25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
How would you count in government pensions, CPFs etc into that? Just take the what's needed on top of that as the 25x expenses?

smoulder
Editor
Editor
Posts: 1326
Joined: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:05 pm

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 5:34 pm

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:22 pm
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm
midlet2013 wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm
How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.
25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
How would you count in government pensions, CPFs etc into that? Just take the what's needed on top of that as the 25x expenses?
The less you can take out from your nest egg every year, the better. That way, there are higher chances that your portfolio will survive major downturns in the market. So my take is to be able to follow the 4 percent /25x rule with the assumption that you never have any annuities (such as CPF).

On another note, what I see implied in most articles that talk about the 4 percent rule is that your portfolio will consist of equities with no or minimal dividends. Dividends are additional "bonuses" that could help you take out less than 4 percent from your nest egg each year.

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 6:02 pm

The 4% guideline caters for inflation, so if your government pension also caters for inflation you can simply subtract it from your annual spending needs. For CPF, the escalating plan covers 2% inflation, which is better than nothing.

At an inflation rate of 2%, costs double after about 35 years. By that time, a pension without inflation will only cover half of what you need. Therefore, you should discount any pension amounts that are not indexed to inflation.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

User avatar
malcontent
Manager
Manager
Posts: 2673
Joined: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:52 am
Answers: 8
Location: Pulau Ujong

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 26 Sep 2021 6:23 pm

The 4% guideline was developed based on total returns, including all dividends. It was backtested based on historical US market performance and US inflation rates, going back to before the Great Depression. The question is often asked, how much does it apply outside the world outside US? To address that you need to understand that 4% was designed to ensure the absolute worst possible conditions, with the worst market returns and highest inflation. In that sense, it is unlikely to fail in any market. And, as an added protection, you can simply skip the inflation increase in the years when there is a down market — this small change will dramatically increase your margin of safety.

David Zolt has built on Bill Bengen’s 4% and developed a way to boost the safe withdrawal rate from 4% to 5.9% without changing the risk of portfolio depletion. If you really want to learn more about all of this, I highly recommend this video, when you have some time (and patience).

https://youtu.be/ptTo8TZiVUk
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

Lisafuller
Governor
Governor
Posts: 6244
Joined: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 11:45 pm
Answers: 3

Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:48 am

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:33 am
How sweet, why SG for you? Is the US home for you too?
I’m born and bred here in SG, been living here all my life as a SG citizen. Family is here. I’m not an American, only visited the US as a tourist. Even though husband grew up in a red state, his parents & family are very liberal (housing is probably cheaper in the South?) He was concerned about my safety when orange man was in office so he decided to come to SG to be with me. I did see “how in your face” some of the religious & political billboards/ads are on the roads and husband was uncomfortable in letting me see that. I found the billboards to be highly amusing though.

He has been a small town guy all his life, never lived in any of the major big cities in the US so he took a while to adjust to the SG metropolis. He only misses nature & mountains and if there weren’t any travel restrictions, I would bring him around SEA to see the natural sights. My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.

I’m still waiting and see what are the results of SG’s “retirement HDB village” since it’s a fairly new concept.
I see. Somehow from your previous posts I assumed you were an American man, clearly I was completely off!

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Relocating, Moving to Singapore”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests