Criteria for approval SPR/SC

[sundaymorningstaple]

If it's any consolation, I am also an extreme introvert. It was only my changing occupations that helped a wee bit. But left to my own devices, I'm still an introvert. I've gone through almost two years of covid without any issues at all. I don't really need people, but I do like to help people but am very reluctant to ask for help. But having past 74 years 5 days ago, I don't reckon I'll change too much in the time I have left.

You just have to figure out an angle. There is one for everyone. Funny though, acting never got into the way of my introversion. I was playing a part. I had a fixed dialog. Not the same.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

but am very reluctant to ask for help.

Fear of being rejected?

But having past 74 years 5 days ago, I don't reckon I'll change too much in the time I have left.

Oh, happy birthday then!

You just have to figure out an angle. There is one for everyone.

sure, thanks

[Addadude]

To add my integration story, it took me 11 years to apply for my PR in 2004. (And that was only because I was nagged into doing so by my then GF and now wife (SG citizen). I'd had the application form buried in my desk drawer for about 4 years at the time.) I received my approval within a month of applying.

I was pretty well integrated into Singapore having only worked in local companies but, more importantly, I had worked on the Singapore Army recruitment campaign for a couple of years in the the mid-90's and had undergone a very stringent background check without my knowing it. (My Army client casually mentioned to me that if I chose to apply for PR, it would be very easy for me.)

Having said all that, I think it was easier to get PR at that time - certainly more so than now.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

I had worked on the Singapore Army recruitment campaign for a couple of years in the the mid-90's

as a foreigner???

Thanks for your story.

I think Sms was right. I need to find my own way. For him it was acting. For you that Army thing.

[malcontent]

but am very reluctant to ask for help.

Fear of being rejected?

I’m the exact same way. It is not fear of rejection… that is what extroverts suffer from. In fact, it’s not a fear at all… it’s just an overwhelming desire for self-reliance.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Mal, you are spot on. If I feared rejection, how in the heck would I have managed to marry 3 times! But your comment is spot on regarding self-reliance. I can honestly say I've never had a co-signer in my life. I paid cash for my first car and bought my insurance under my own name and not as a rider on my father's policy. Oh, I was only 16 when I bought that car right after I got my license.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

3 times?

Some funny anecdotal stories to be told from that interview but that for another time.

Could you tell now, sms? I'm just curious

Oh, almost forgot.
Sms, I think it was you suggesting to wait for 2 years before applying again. If it's not you, please just ignore this part.
I wonder why 2 years. Why not 1, 3, or 4? ICA says an unsuccessful applicant can try again after 6 months. OK, you're the bad cop; you would call it looking desperate and begging for a stable pass so that the applicant doesn't have to leave the country. The good cop would refer to applying annually as "commitment and consistency".

[sundaymorningstaple]

In ICA's eyes, if you apply too soon, unless of course you are a rocket scientist or neurosurgeon (they really don't need the former but desperately need the latter. You are not likely to have any measure of success at 6 months unless your name is Richard Branson, James Dyson or
Eduardo Saverin. However over a long period of 17 years give or take a few anecdotally we find that 2 years is a prime number. less than that generally will be rejected (after all, it really takes that long to get a good feel and lay of the land to make that kind of commitment to become a "Permanent" Resident otherwise, those that apply too soon look like they are just looking for long term visas so they are not sent packing when they lose their job. The PR is supposed to be laying the groundwork for movement to eventual SGC. ICA feels like it takes at least two years to make that kind of decision but you will not find it in print anywhere (just like you will not find the lower entry salary rates for Malaysians for the various work passes). But these things are facts albeit not published on the websites.

There are no good / bad cops here. It is what it is. You are looking for permanent residency, the ICA is looking for future citizens. They are going to bounce those who don't appear to be acting in the country's interest. They also have records and better stats than we do. I am pretty sure they know exactly how many PR are granted every year and how many give up their PR and how long they worked here before applying for PR in the first place. Once you are given a FIN number it is a UID and is only relinquished (but never used again) when you give up your work pass and receive a Blue NRIC. That number will never change, even if you become an SGC it will be changed to a Pink NRIC but the number will be the same. I am sure over the past 30 years they have enough traffic to ascertain a correlation between good bets and how long they waited before making that first PR application. They have the data, we only have the anecdotal evidence that is actually only the tip of the iceberg as not everybody joins or even knows about our site. But with a wealth of anecdotal evidence over almost 20 years of doing this site, I'd be willing to bet we are not far off.

However, if one is willing to gamble, it's their prerogative. But if one only waits a year, applies, and is rejected, you will see a lot of them have been applying annually and have been rejected 4 or 5 times. but if they apply after the first rejection at one year and then wait two years before reapplying, quite often they are then successful. Read into it what you want. Our way generally takes two to four years, the other way take 3 to 5 years or more.


3 times? I've been married a total of 52 years, just took 3 to do it. Will be married this time for 38 years on the 23rd of this month.

sms

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

Sms, thanks a lot of the detailed reply. The reason why I'm skeptical about waiting for X years because for my and my wife's races (Others and Indian, respectively) the quotas are low anyway, and I don't think my chances will increase much simply for waiting (but from what you said it might be incorrect. Also, it's not going to be just waiting, of course. It's growing professionally (positions and income), staying in the jobs that won't disappear during the next 10 years, integrating, having children, etc.).

Hmmm... Besides, the last thing I want to hear after waiting, say, until 2025 is "IT people like you had a good chance in 2023. Now the country has enough. You missed your opportunity." I remember reading a story here about an Indian applicant who was told to wait for 2 years back in 2009. He waited for 3 or more. Applied in 2012 (after the number of PRs given annually had been reduced from ~70k to ~30k ). Afterwards, he applied a few more times. And guess what, now in 2021, he is not a SPR. Got rejected every time.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

But if one only waits a year, applies, and is rejected, you will see a lot of them have been applying annually and have been rejected 4 or 5 times. but if they apply after the first rejection at one year and then wait two years before reapplying, quite often they are then successful. Read into it what you want. Our way generally takes two to four years, the other way take 3 to 5 years or more.

Sms, do you think reapplying too quickly (after 6 months or 1 year) deteriorates the applicant's chances? In my opinion, trying too hard is as bad as not doing enough. That's not only about PR. That's in general.

On a separate note, do you think living in an HDB is seen as integration? The reason why we would consider an HDB rather than a condo is because we don't use most of the facilities (BBQ, swimming pool which I already have in my gym, etc.). But we pay for them indirectly (the LL pays the maintenance fee, and our rent, I guess, is calculated with this expense included).

Thanks,
PartyLike

[sundaymorningstaple]

To me, and I would hazard a guess, most of the long-term regulars on this board will concur, it does appear that applying in less than an year does have the pong of desperation in it. This, if I were an ICA officer, would get my spidey senses aroused as to why. Were they afraid of losing their job and get sent packing? Or were they in a hurry to cash in on an HDB flat (although that has been somewhat dampened with the new criterias). It just doesn't smell right.

Now I have to admit that I had some training in how to think like an immigration officer from 1988 to 1991 during my first attempt at working in Singapore and getting away from the O & G industry towards my own way to gaining PR. I work along side of UNHCR for the US Refugee Program during the exodus of VN Refugee boat people during the 1980s~early 90's. Those refugees were a mixed bag of true refugees that had suffered persecution after the fall of S. VN in 1975 and were being slowly released from re-education camps and economic refugees who were primarily North VN looking for a new beginning for economic reasons only. As I was working for the US part of the program it was my job to interview these people in the camps throughout S.E.Asia (for me, primarily P. Galang three islands over in the Riau Islands across the harbour from SG). I also spend time in the camp at Palawan in the 'peens and P. Bidong in M'sia. Because there were huge numbers of economic refugees, these people did NOT qualify for Refugee status under the eyes of the UNHCR nor the US. My job was to determine who these people were. Most didn't have paperwork and a lot had fraudulent paperwork (I'm pretty good at spotting forgeries as well). I actually wrote (collected/assembled) a manual for usage throughout the various camps in ASEAN to help other caseworkers, (most of which were much younger than I) as I also had the unfortunate benefit of being a NAM AMVET (former WO chopper pilot). Therefore I knew a heck of a lot about VN during the war era and the equipment/locations/units, etc, etc. and it was easy to trip some of them up during the interviews. So, all I'm saying is that I can almost put myself in ICA officers eyes/ears. Not always right, as times and needs of the country change, but my track record here seems to be pretty accurate..(..rambling again).

NB: I also shared the office in International Plaza on the 32nd floor with the US INS officer here in Singapore so had lots of good intel how to observe and question without questioning.

[WincH+]

If not wrong, the 2 years cooldown period mostly came from one of the now extinct SPR rejection letter template from ICA stating "We have considered your application carefully. We regret to inform you that your application has not been successful. You may wish to re-submit another application for our consideration in 2 years' time. In evaluating any application, we take into consideration all relevant factors, including changes in residential period, financial stability as well as conduct."

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

To me, and I would hazard a guess, most of the long-term regulars on this board will concur, it does appear that applying in less than an year does have the pong of desperation in it. This, if I were an ICA officer, would get my spidey senses aroused as to why. Were they afraid of losing their job and get sent packing?

Well, I'd fully agree if we were talking about a married couple from the same country or the EU. You lose your jobs; you both go home. Where home is the same country.
But our case is a little different. I am from Russia, and my wife is from India. And we are expecting a baby this autumn
In the worst case, if we both lose our jobs (which I hope won't happen 'cause our company is doing well enough, but each round of HA, CB, etc. makes me feel anxious) and have to leave the country, sure thing, we can go to Russia. The problem is that she doesn't know the language (very hard to get a job, etc. Imagine yourself being put to a random country in Africa ), and in terms of culture the country is totally different from her home country. Same applies to me going to India. I feel like it could be fun to go and meet her family someday and not for working and living. I'd be the only white guy in town

Didn't mean to sound desperate. Just facts.

[sundaymorningstaple]

As expatriates, that is what we all face at some point or another. Nobody can answer that as that is a personal decision that will obviously impact the rest of your lives. But to fly on a wing & a prayer is a dangerous game and we all need a permanent plan B, which obviously is not desirable, but necessary and doable. I was in a similar position in 1988 when I left the O&G industry to try and change professions.

[malcontent]

Same applies to me going to India. I feel like it could be fun to go and meet her family someday and not for working and living. I'd be the only white guy in town

Then you can party like a maharaja!