Criteria for approval SPR/SC

[malcontent]

I know there is a considerable body of expertise on this board who translate the collective anecdotal evidence into predictive analytics which is used to estimate within a reasonable margin of accuracy whether an application for SPR/SC will be successful or not. Obviously such an estimation can never be certain because there is no hard data and things are constantly changing.

One question that has been percolating in my mind as the criteria for SPR seems to have shifted over the past decade from being more of a longer-term working visa with greater flexibility to more of a root-sinking pathway to citizenship. So what are the similarities and differences between approving SPR and SC these days? Has it almost completely converged and the only difference is duration of stay?

The other question I was wondering about is whether anyone has attempted to reverse engineer the criteria based on tribal knowledge. I am guessing there might be a first level CMIO ethnic affiliation (top level criteria), each one with its own quota that is aligned to maintaining existing proportionality. Then within each of those, the most promising applicants get chosen. I would guess things like economic contribution, integration & motivation, family ties and time in Singapore (probably in that order) would be key determinants. I would guess those from Malaysia get the highest scores in integration and motivation, and economic contribution might be the only thing that can trump that (depending how significant).

[sundaymorningstaple]

If my English were better, I could almost write a thesis on this!

The short answer is that PR is still looked at as a stepping stone to SGC by the government. But for certain members of the CMIO it is primarily use as a long term visa without limitations but with inbuilt bouncing bettys and punji traps that can literally blow up in you face. (like having a son with an inherited NS liability as a PR). This has made PR somewhat less favourable for some but a nil concern for most except those who are looking at it as long term visas.

As far as who gets what, it published and was brought up in Parliament last year that Immigration uses the current citizenry demographics to determine immigration and it actively uses immigration demographics to determine how many of each ethnic group will be allowed in, in a given year. As we are acutely aware of, the smallest single ethnic group has the largest annual number of applications (and supposedly the largest percentage who do not take up SGC) I have one in our extended family (my son-in-law's parents who've been PRs for over 25 years). I've been to their home in Kerala and I can understand why. But the son is a SGC via the NS route (was offered OCS and took it and was offered SGC if it took it as passed - they asked him, not the other way around.

Within each ethnic group, I think it then takes into consideration the mentioned factors you made but also will include the Industry as well. If you have something the Government wants or needs, you may not have a long of the social aspects, but you have some more worthwhile to contribute to nation building. All contribute, but some items if very solid seem to produce a different weightage for the other thereby offsetting the potential negative or nil factor.

Malaysians, as noted, work on an entirely different wavelength and are brought in with less incomes but virtually instant integration, therefore seamlessly blending into the greater population. Having said that, it is mostly the Malaysian Chinese that virtually get a red carpet.

It's not always the most promising applicants that get chosen, but often, if in certain industries, being a high flyer can actually be a detriment to success. Witness the numbers of highflyers in the Financial sector that are high level or C level persons with incomes in excess of 300K up. These seem to get turned down more times than not, I personally think it's because the Government knows that they are a flight risk as the parent companies are famous for grabbing high level personnel and parachuting them into other countries. That wastes a long term PR or eventual SGC slot that could be filled by a mid-level exec in the same industry and in their late mid-late 30s with a young family. These make bettr 'stayers'. Also, the mid-level types are more likely to purchase an HDB flat and thereby integrate better and faster that those that buy expat condo enclaves like have happened over the last 10 years out in Changi and East Coast and stay in their own ethnic enclave/ghetto.I

Between SPR and SGC? I think the major factor - differences (all others being relatively the same) are twofold. One would be the length of time on EP before applying for SPR and the other the length of time before applying for SGC after obtaining SPR. I 'think' the longer you wait before applying for PR is just as hazardous as applying too soon/often. It's my view that there are more applicants are applying for PR (or as we saw last year more PEP application) during a recession or anticipated recession (or pandemic as it were) when it looks like lots of jobs might be shed/lost. Or there are people like me on SPR who waited for whatever reason and are nearing retirement but has spent so many years here that they would be strangers in their own countries. They would have problems. Especially those who got their SPR on PTS schemes. In my case my druthers have been sorted as there is now a special category for folks like myself. Family Ties, and in 2 days I'll be 74 so there is a Senior Citizens category if you have SGC children here. The real worrisome part of that was as a PR, subsidies for medical are terrible and become a senior you know the medical necessities are going to increase. This may also impact older PR's who wait till their late 50s~early 60's to apply for SGC as the government is also wise to the additional strain it will put on the medical system with payment from the PR as an SGC has huge benefits.

I hate to start typing after all have gone to bed and all is quiet! I'll stop now!!!!!

[malcontent]

Excellent points SMS. One other point that I have picked up on in recent years, they seem to carefully consider whether a family nucleus is created as a result of granting PR. I believe this is what happened when my daughter applied for PR under her mother - this was going to form a family nucleus because nobody else in our immediate family has PR. They seemed to want assurances that we already had housing settled and would not be putting additional demand on HDB. This was around the same time that they put the 3 year rule in place, restricting new PRs from buying flats until they put in the time. I could be wrong.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Probably a lot of truth there as well. Family nucleus is key for immigration. But it can be altered by race, age, and a myriad of other factors that we are only able to guess at. This is way most of my answer are based on opinion only as we cannot confirm anything but try to see trends, as you have mentioned. We will never know how many variables and how answers to one variable impact the weightage given to other variables. Those state secrets are more closely guarded that the military's capabilities. Can always go to Jane's for military hardware, etc.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

As we are acutely aware of, the smallest single ethnic group has the largest annual number of applications

Morning Sms,

You mean Others?
How do you know? ICA publishes how many PRs were given, not how many applied.

Thanks

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

The other question I was wondering about is whether anyone has attempted to reverse engineer the criteria based on tribal knowledge. I am guessing there might be a first level CMIO ethnic affiliation (top level criteria), each one with its own quota that is aligned to maintaining existing proportionality. Then within each of those, the most promising applicants get chosen. I would guess things like economic contribution, integration & motivation, family ties and time in Singapore (probably in that order) would be key determinants. I would guess those from Malaysia get the highest scores in integration and motivation, and economic contribution might be the only thing that can trump that (depending how significant).

Dear All,

Can anyone please explain to me what is integration and how it's measured?

[sundaymorningstaple]

17 years on this forum give us a pretty good idea of trends. Additionally, how did you get your question? "You mean Others?" What does smallest SINGLE ETHNIC GROUP mean to you? What does 'others' means to you? Generally others, being plural, 'others' means any/all other ethnicities not fitting into the three 'single' ethnic groups. If you have a whinge, at least make sure your whinge is accurate.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The other question I was wondering about is whether anyone has attempted to reverse engineer the criteria based on tribal knowledge. I am guessing there might be a first level CMIO ethnic affiliation (top level criteria), each one with its own quota that is aligned to maintaining existing proportionality. Then within each of those, the most promising applicants get chosen. I would guess things like economic contribution, integration & motivation, family ties and time in Singapore (probably in that order) would be key determinants. I would guess those from Malaysia get the highest scores in integration and motivation, and economic contribution might be the only thing that can trump that (depending how significant).

Dear All,

Can anyone please explain to me what is integration and how it's measured?

If it could be quantified, then ICA would be getting tailor made applications. Good example is if you live in a condo mostly with others of your own breed. If you party like a Singaporean and not like a Russian, is a good example. Is your circle of friend mostly like minded or diverse with locals. Actually, doesn't take being a rocket scientist to figure out what integration means in the context of becoming a Permanent Resident or SGC. You have to been see to be "integrating", e.g., blending into the society of Singapore.

[smoulder]

The other question I was wondering about is whether anyone has attempted to reverse engineer the criteria based on tribal knowledge. I am guessing there might be a first level CMIO ethnic affiliation (top level criteria), each one with its own quota that is aligned to maintaining existing proportionality. Then within each of those, the most promising applicants get chosen. I would guess things like economic contribution, integration & motivation, family ties and time in Singapore (probably in that order) would be key determinants. I would guess those from Malaysia get the highest scores in integration and motivation, and economic contribution might be the only thing that can trump that (depending how significant).

Dear All,

Can anyone please explain to me what is integration and how it's measured?

Obvious ones -
1) are you a Malaysian and especially of Chinese ethnicity.
2) are you married to a Singaporean.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

The other question I was wondering about is whether anyone has attempted to reverse engineer the criteria based on tribal knowledge. I am guessing there might be a first level CMIO ethnic affiliation (top level criteria), each one with its own quota that is aligned to maintaining existing proportionality. Then within each of those, the most promising applicants get chosen. I would guess things like economic contribution, integration & motivation, family ties and time in Singapore (probably in that order) would be key determinants. I would guess those from Malaysia get the highest scores in integration and motivation, and economic contribution might be the only thing that can trump that (depending how significant).

Dear All,

Can anyone please explain to me what is integration and how it's measured?

If it could be quantified, then ICA would be getting tailor made applications. Good example is if you live in a condo mostly with others of your own breed. If you party like a Singaporean and not like a Russian, is a good example. Is your circle of friend mostly like minded or diverse with locals. Actually, doesn't take being a rocket scientist to figure out what integration means in the context of becoming a Permanent Resident or SGC. You have to been see to be "integrating", e.g., blending into the society of Singapore.

Thanks, Sms.

I remember you saying long back (August 2020) that integration was not:

• Volunteering in local charities.

• Learning the official languages. Chinese, then could be a little Malay and Tamil.

P.S. party like a Singaporean can
But I'd love to keep the nickname. Cool song By the way, if you're curious, you could find its interpretation. I have one, but it's in Russian, unfortunately. But it has each line explained.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

The other question I was wondering about is whether anyone has attempted to reverse engineer the criteria based on tribal knowledge. I am guessing there might be a first level CMIO ethnic affiliation (top level criteria), each one with its own quota that is aligned to maintaining existing proportionality. Then within each of those, the most promising applicants get chosen. I would guess things like economic contribution, integration & motivation, family ties and time in Singapore (probably in that order) would be key determinants. I would guess those from Malaysia get the highest scores in integration and motivation, and economic contribution might be the only thing that can trump that (depending how significant).

Dear All,

Can anyone please explain to me what is integration and how it's measured?

Obvious ones -
1) are you a Malaysian and especially of Chinese ethnicity.
2) are you married to a Singaporean.

1 - no
2 - married to an Indian EP holder for 1 year. The heart doesn't look at the status. Neither does it think rationally

Other obvious examples?

[smoulder]

1 - no
2 - married to an Indian EP holder for 1 year. The heart doesn't look at the status. Neither does it think rationally

Other obvious examples?

Certainly not suggesting that you or anyone else marries out of convenience because the ICA is probably smart enough to catch that.

Unfortunately, there aren't that many other obvious ways to demonstrate integration that can really help to improve your chances of getting that PR. Probably good to have a plan B.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

Probably good to have a plan B.

thanks. We have plan B (it's Australia, especially the Brisbane area), but Singapore is still plan A due to many factors and our personal preference.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Dear All,

Can anyone please explain to me what is integration and how it's measured?

Obvious ones -
1) are you a Malaysian and especially of Chinese ethnicity.
2) are you married to a Singaporean.

1 - no
2 - married to an Indian EP holder for 1 year. The heart doesn't look at the status. Neither does it think rationally

Other obvious examples?

Okay.

I'll give you an example, while not obvious, it is probably what got me my PR, truth be known. I'm a farmer & waterman by trade, not highly educated but tend to be, in my own opinion, reasonably street smart. Having said that, it took me 11 years to get my PR. I had to change occupations in order to accomplish that so there was a learning curve there as well as the new occupation was about a far away from my old occupation as one could possibly get.

I worked in the Oil Fields and a commercial diver with the largest diving company in the world. I was headhunted by them and plucked from another diving company in the Gulf of Mexico where I normally worked. I took a 12 month contract during the 1981~82 US Oil Embargo when the drilling in the US came to a virtual stop. I ultimately stayed 8 years with them as they kept rolling over my contract. However, during that 8 years I married a local girl, had two children and three cars all on a bog standard 30 tourist visa. I stayed on tourists visas for all of the 8years and part of the remaining three year interspersed with a period of EPs and a temporary return to Offshore but in a different segment of industry (not diving related). Anyway, in 1988 I was approached via a friend/colleague who was married to a Malay woman (he was a Brit) who did part time acting with SBC (the forerunner of TCS/MediaCorp). I started acting with them on a part time basis and ultimately this continued for over 100 different scenes over an 18 year period. Money was peanuts, but it effectively was a prime benefit to my local employer and to myself over the long term. I went to work for a headhunting firm and I specialized in O & G engineers for greenfield, exploration, refinery revamps, etc. My local boss was Chinese and sadly Chinese educated and was, at a time when not good here and LGBTO were only starting to make some waves/inroads here, a G in the acronym. He was a flagrant G and had a problem when trying to get into some of the companies out on the refinery islands if the management was westerners. I literally had to teach him how to speak without the lisping and toning down his mannerisms. e.g., I ran interference for him. But at the same time, I also provided a means of getting by the normal receptionists/secretaries to see the upper level staff as all my acting with SBC,etc was Chinese Drama series. So I was easily recognized ANYWHERE I went here, buses, hawker centres, MRT, literally I was extremely visible. So, even in the Kopitiams, the aunties, with their really poor English back in the late 80's & 90's would still attempt to strike up conversations as their curiosity got the best of them and they would haltingly ask if I was Mr. So & So in the latest drama series. It was worth a lot more the the pittance I was getting paid.

So, in 1988, after LKY made his last Nat'l Day Rally Speech, where he mentioned that ICA was going to start looking at those who had been rejected but had married locally and had families. Ears perked up, and I applied. But, without having the benefit of the internet in '88, or sites like this one, I made the mistake of using a lawyer to apply for PR. Summarily rejected. Appealed, rejected again. So I waited for a number of years till around 1994. Applied fresh by myself and was called into ICA for a PR interview (this used to be the way). I had a sit down in a small office with two ICA officer and got the third degree for a while. Some funny anecdotal stories to be told from that interview but that for another time. Suffice it to say, while they were perusing my original documents, one set had several pages that I didn't submit nor include in my application. It was from SBC and up to the date of the letter had a listing of all the various Chinese Drama Serials I'd appeared in. The younger officer asked why I hadn't included it on my application. I simply told him the application asked for my chronological employment, which I put in full, the work for SBS was congruently along side of my full time employment on an ad hoc as needed basis. About this time the elder officer finally spoke (he'd been quiet from the start, and just walk around the room listening to the interview up to that point. When he spoke, he said "I know I've never interviewed you before but I know I recognized you but couldn't figure out where it was. Now it is crystal clear." Zoey Tay and I started the same year with SBC and I work with her on her first leading role. I've work with all of them over the years (I did it for 18 years, not retiring until 2006. Long after I had gotten my PR. Oh, yeah, I had my PR 2 weeks after that interview.

Not saying you can do the same, but you have to be seen to be integrating, for me, it was the easiest way I know how to bridge both the language gap and the reticent nature of the heartlanders. It worked. I've been in my estate for 21 years now and most of the residents recognized me when I moved in, 13 years ago I joined the RC and am still a active member. I get nor ask for nothing in return. I didn't join until my kids were both adults and I don't own a car so didn't partake of the special parking arrangement. You have to integrate, not just 'seem' to integrate as so many have done and as soon as they get want they want, they are gone.

Sorry for the long, long post but there is no easy way to get this information across as people don't seem to quite understand the term "integrate". Hope this, in some way, helps.
sms

NB: This is also why I've been on this board for 17 years. I didn't have the benefit this board provides, but I am a firm believer in paying it forward. But I also am a cantankerous old curmudgeon and sometimes get short as we are all adults on here and I do not believe in spoon-feeding adults. So I apologize for my sometime short answers but one thing I don't'/won't do is blow smoke.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

Obvious ones -
1) are you a Malaysian and especially of Chinese ethnicity.
2) are you married to a Singaporean.

1 - no
2 - married to an Indian EP holder for 1 year. The heart doesn't look at the status. Neither does it think rationally

Other obvious examples?

Okay.

I'll give you an example, while not obvious, it is probably what got me my PR, truth be known. I'm a farmer & waterman by trade, not highly educated but tend to be, in my own opinion, reasonably street smart. Having said that, it took me 11 years to get my PR. I had to change occupations in order to accomplish that so there was a learning curve there as well as the new occupation was about a far away from my old occupation as one could possibly get.

I worked in the Oil Fields and a commercial diver with the largest diving company in the world. I was headhunted by them and plucked from another diving company in the Gulf of Mexico where I normally worked. I took a 12 month contract during the 1981~82 US Oil Embargo when the drilling in the US came to a virtual stop. I ultimately stayed 8 years with them as they kept rolling over my contract. However, during that 8 years I married a local girl, had two children and three cars all on a bog standard 30 tourist visa. I stayed on tourists visas for all of the 8years and part of the remaining three year interspersed with a period of EPs and a temporary return to Offshore but in a different segment of industry (not diving related). Anyway, in 1988 I was approached via a friend/colleague who was married to a Malay woman (he was a Brit) who did part time acting with SBC (the forerunner of TCS/MediaCorp). I started acting with them on a part time basis and ultimately this continued for over 100 different scenes over an 18 year period. Money was peanuts, but it effectively was a prime benefit to my local employer and to myself over the long term. I went to work for a headhunting firm and I specialized in O & G engineers for greenfield, exploration, refinery revamps, etc. My local boss was Chinese and sadly Chinese educated and was, at a time when not good here and LGBTO were only starting to make some waves/inroads here, a G in the acronym. He was a flagrant G and had a problem when trying to get into some of the companies out on the refinery islands if the management was westerners. I literally had to teach him how to speak without the lisping and toning down his mannerisms. e.g., I ran interference for him. But at the same time, I also provided a means of getting by the normal receptionists/secretaries to see the upper level staff as all my acting with SBC,etc was Chinese Drama series. So I was easily recognized ANYWHERE I went here, buses, hawker centres, MRT, literally I was extremely visible. So, even in the Kopitiams, the aunties, with their really poor English back in the late 80's & 90's would still attempt to strike up conversations as their curiosity got the best of them and they would haltingly ask if I was Mr. So & So in the latest drama series. It was worth a lot more the the pittance I was getting paid.

So, in 1988, after LKY made his last Nat'l Day Rally Speech, where he mentioned that ICA was going to start looking at those who had been rejected but had married locally and had families. Ears perked up, and I applied. But, without having the benefit of the internet in '88, or sites like this one, I made the mistake of using a lawyer to apply for PR. Summarily rejected. Appealed, rejected again. So I waited for a number of years till around 1994. Applied fresh by myself and was called into ICA for a PR interview (this used to be the way). I had a sit down in a small office with two ICA officer and got the third degree for a while. Some funny anecdotal stories to be told from that interview but that for another time. Suffice it to say, while they were perusing my original documents, one set had several pages that I didn't submit nor include in my application. It was from SBC and up to the date of the letter had a listing of all the various Chinese Drama Serials I'd appeared in. The younger officer asked why I hadn't included it on my application. I simply told him the application asked for my chronological employment, which I put in full, the work for SBS was congruently along side of my full time employment on an ad hoc as needed basis. About this time the elder officer finally spoke (he'd been quiet from the start, and just walk around the room listening to the interview up to that point. When he spoke, he said "I know I've never interviewed you before but I know I recognized you but couldn't figure out where it was. Now it is crystal clear." Zoey Tay and I started the same year with SBC and I work with her on her first leading role. I've work with all of them over the years (I did it for 18 years, not retiring until 2006. Long after I had gotten my PR. Oh, yeah, I had my PR 2 weeks after that interview.

Not saying you can do the same, but you have to be seen to be integrating, for me, it was the easiest way I know how to bridge both the language gap and the reticent nature of the heartlanders. It worked. I've been in my estate for 21 years now and most of the residents recognized me when I moved in, 13 years ago I joined the RC and am still a active member. I get nor ask for nothing in return. I didn't join until my kids were both adults and I don't own a car so didn't partake of the special parking arrangement. You have to integrate, not just 'seem' to integrate as so many have done and as soon as they get want they want, they are gone.

Sorry for the long, long post but there is no easy way to get this information across as people don't seem to quite understand the term "integrate". Hope this, in some way, helps.
sms

NB: This is also why I've been on this board for 17 years. I didn't have the benefit this board provides, but I am a firm believer in paying it forward. But I also am a cantankerous old curmudgeon and sometimes get short as we are all adults on here and I do not believe in spoon-feeding adults. So I apologize for my sometime short answers but one thing I don't'/won't do is blow smoke.

cantankerous old curmudgeon I learned these words some time ago from A Man Called Ove and just recognised them here.

C'mon, I believe you're a nice uncle

Well, acting is definitely not something I can do. I'm a software engineer, an introvert and largely indoors kind of person.

But thanks anyway, I will think of ways to integrate, which I truly want to do.