Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

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Myasis Dragon
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Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by Myasis Dragon » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:36 pm

Hello folks. I know that from a re-entry perspective, a second gen PR who renounces his PR in order to avoid national service faces the probability of never being able to work or live in Singapore in the future on an EP or PR.

But, are there any actual legal ramifications, as might accrue to a citizen who skips NS? For example, the man completes his secondary school and is eligible for NS, at least in the SDF. But instead of signing up, he scarpers and he/parents renounce his PR.

Any civil/criminal penalties that will accrue to this PR jumping ship like that?

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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 4:37 pm

Not real sure on that one, MD, I think it would depend on if he already had been called up. If he was called up, then he would be classed as a deserter and there are penalties for that. However, he could kiss ever being employed here goodbye forever. Hell, my former boss' son, who I've written about numerous times over the past 16 years cannot get an employment pass here and the Father is a card carrying PAP member but the Mother is still an Eastern European (Polish) citizen PR here. They never got a dependents pass or PR for the son, but did so for the daughter. He spent his whole time here on a Student Visa then went back to the UK where Dad also owns an Apartment, did his BSc and MSc in Civil Engrg and came back here but we could NOT get and we really tried probably a dozen times to get him an EP. No dice. He can come in on an SVP but he not about to get and employment pass. Every rejection says the same "you have unresolved issues with Mindef" and he never had PR at all. (But his sister does and his Mother does).

So, as a PR jumping ship, I'm sure they have a way to hook an absconder if he's caught coming through immigration and I'm sure if he was a PR, he will be flagged in the database till hell freezes over.
Life isn't about avoiding the bruises. It's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it!

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PNGMK
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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 5:29 pm

I don't see it as have any criminal law or military law issues unless, as SMS says, you are already enlisted.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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malcontent
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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by malcontent » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 7:15 pm

This is something where they have been turning the screws tighter and tighter as the years go by. I know it used to be quite a bit more relaxed 20 years ago than it is today.

I think today the only clean way to have a son here and keep him completely free of any NS controversies and future EP difficulties is for him to be a DP of an EP holder throughout… and to make extra sure that not a single single shred of government assistance is ever enjoyed by him. Even then you’ll never know until he applies for an EP someday.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by x9200 » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 7:17 pm

This: "you have unresolved issues with Mindef" is very weird.
Has he tried to ask Mindef how to solve the issues?

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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 9:55 pm

x9200 wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 7:17 pm
This: "you have unresolved issues with Mindef" is very weird.
Has he tried to ask Mindef how to solve the issues?
It beaurucratic speak for "We think you're an absconder from NS" but the issues are not resolvable because the fellow has missed his chance to do NS. Classic catch - 22
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

Myasis Dragon
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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by Myasis Dragon » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:59 pm

Thanks for the very useful info, folks.

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x9200
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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by x9200 » Sat, 31 Jul 2021 10:34 am

PNGMK wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 9:55 pm
x9200 wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 7:17 pm
This: "you have unresolved issues with Mindef" is very weird.
Has he tried to ask Mindef how to solve the issues?
It beaurucratic speak for "We think you're an absconder from NS" but the issues are not resolvable because the fellow has missed his chance to do NS. Classic catch - 22
Yes, but what strikes me is the openness of the statement. Normally in similar cases they seem more into general statements... we regret to inform your application for blebleble was not successful this time. This, specifically, that there seems to be no lex specialis covering such situations, so the legal ground for the decision is likely something like "...decision ...at the discretion of..".

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Re: Renouncing PR to Avoid National Service

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Jul 2021 1:58 pm

I think there is a lot going on behind that statement. Like the fact that the Father is a card carrying PAP member (who was approached at one point (I believe it was the run-up to the 2011 GE) to run for political office-he turned it down). The daughter was made PR, the mother continued to remain PR(and up till I retired still held PR not going for SGC), but the son scampered off to University in Cambridge. But by the time he'd finished his 2nd degree he was well over the age of 21 so could not become a dependent. I'm sure the government knew he existed and that they were looking foolish, so that may have been there way of putting him in a catch 22, because when Mindef was contacted, he was told that he wasn't required to do NS. But would not give him anything in writing. The government here can be sneaky barstewards if they want to be.
Life isn't about avoiding the bruises. It's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it!

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