Delta putting a damper on things global

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Jgrif96229
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Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Jgrif96229 » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 8:09 am

Delta varient seems to be putting a damper on resuming a new normal.

Case counts and clusters here seem to mount each day even with an vaccination roll out.

Not so sure August is going the way it's being planned. Do you think Singapore will still be phase 2 restrictions come September. USA seeing rebound in cass as they just can't get ahead of Delta.

After 28 months there seems to be no new breakthrough treatment once you get sick.
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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by abbby » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 9:25 am

I am hoping we will exit Phase 2 in September, but the numbers of daily Covid cases really has to come down first. The fishery port and KTV cluster is one big one. And we're also seeing that there's hope for some possible travels for vaccinated people in September.
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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:57 am

Jgrif96229 wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 8:09 am
Delta varient seems to be putting a damper on resuming a new normal.

Case counts and clusters here seem to mount each day even with an vaccination roll out.

Not so sure August is going the way it's being planned. Do you think Singapore will still be phase 2 restrictions come September. USA seeing rebound in cass as they just can't get ahead of Delta.

After 28 months there seems to be no new breakthrough treatment once you get sick.
This is the problem. People don't understand that the case count will continue to mount as long as they test. NONE of the vaccines will prevent one from catching Covid in any of it variants. What it does is make the virus not as virulent so usually, if you are two weeks past your 2nd injection, while you will possibly be infected as the clusters continue to grow (and they will) it, in all probability will not cause you to be hospitalized, or need Oxygen support or ICU ventilation. It will NOT prevent you from catching covid. Pfizer & Moderna are 95 & 94.5% effective (so yes, there IS a 5~6% chance of needing hospitalization (especially if over 60 and already have other underlying medical conditions). Both Sino Vaccines are 50 & 79% effective in preventing serious complications which is not acceptable in the MOH eyes (and I don't blame them). Even if the population hits 95% vaxxed it will not stop people from becoming part of clusters (This whole thing is a clusterf**k) They want to ringfence, won't work as has been seen with the Jurong Fishery port. Singapore is nothing but a large city (/state) whose landmass is the same as NYC (not the greater metropolitan area but NYC proper) You can ringfence cities and states, but the problem here is that a city wide ringfence is actually a country lockdown and without a hinterland, SG dies. It is really going to be endemic and will be the new order unless it burns itself out (I believe the Spanish Flu did just that eventually).
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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:58 am

Jgrif96229 wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 8:09 am
Delta varient seems to be putting a damper on resuming a new normal.

Case counts and clusters here seem to mount each day even with an vaccination roll out.

Not so sure August is going the way it's being planned. Do you think Singapore will still be phase 2 restrictions come September. USA seeing rebound in cass as they just can't get ahead of Delta.

After 28 months there seems to be no new breakthrough treatment once you get sick.
Seems like a lot of backsliding due to poor planning and overly idealistic attitudes (on the part of the government). Every couple of weeks restrictions are revised (usually loosened) only to be tightened a week or two later when cases go back up or a new cluster emerges.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 11:59 am

abbby wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 9:25 am
I am hoping we will exit Phase 2 in September, but the numbers of daily Covid cases really has to come down first. The fishery port and KTV cluster is one big one. And we're also seeing that there's hope for some possible travels for vaccinated people in September.
As of right now, we are due to exit P2HA in late August, but I’m not sure this will be the case unless more are vaccinated and the clusters are dealt with. Helps that they are incentivizing people to get vaccinated by promising travel/dining privileges.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by smoulder » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:42 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:57 am
Jgrif96229 wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 8:09 am
Delta varient seems to be putting a damper on resuming a new normal.

Case counts and clusters here seem to mount each day even with an vaccination roll out.

Not so sure August is going the way it's being planned. Do you think Singapore will still be phase 2 restrictions come September. USA seeing rebound in cass as they just can't get ahead of Delta.

After 28 months there seems to be no new breakthrough treatment once you get sick.
This is the problem. People don't understand that the case count will continue to mount as long as they test. NONE of the vaccines will prevent one from catching Covid in any of it variants. What it does is make the virus not as virulent so usually, if you are two weeks past your 2nd injection, while you will possibly be infected as the clusters continue to grow (and they will) it, in all probability will not cause you to be hospitalized, or need Oxygen support or ICU ventilation. It will NOT prevent you from catching covid. Pfizer & Moderna are 95 & 94.5% effective (so yes, there IS a 5~6% chance of needing hospitalization (especially if over 60 and already have other underlying medical conditions). Both Sino Vaccines are 50 & 79% effective in preventing serious complications which is not acceptable in the MOH eyes (and I don't blame them). Even if the population hits 95% vaxxed it will not stop people from becoming part of clusters (This whole thing is a clusterf**k) They want to ringfence, won't work as has been seen with the Jurong Fishery port. Singapore is nothing but a large city (/state) whose landmass is the same as NYC (not the greater metropolitan area but NYC proper) You can ringfence cities and states, but the problem here is that a city wide ringfence is actually a country lockdown and without a hinterland, SG dies. It is really going to be endemic and will be the new order unless it burns itself out (I believe the Spanish Flu did just that eventually).
Some anecdotal evidence. My friend's mother, she's in her 80s and suffers from dementia, with deteriorating health was infected recently during the 2nd covid wave in India. Good thing is that she was already vaccinated, I think with AZ. Her symptoms were very mild and no one else in the house was infected including a few who weren't yet vaccinated. This despite her wandering around the house without her mask (suffers from dementia as I said). The doctors feel that it's probably because she was vaccinated.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 2:41 pm

smoulder wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:42 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:57 am
Jgrif96229 wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 8:09 am
Delta varient seems to be putting a damper on resuming a new normal.

Case counts and clusters here seem to mount each day even with an vaccination roll out.

Not so sure August is going the way it's being planned. Do you think Singapore will still be phase 2 restrictions come September. USA seeing rebound in cass as they just can't get ahead of Delta.

After 28 months there seems to be no new breakthrough treatment once you get sick.
This is the problem. People don't understand that the case count will continue to mount as long as they test. NONE of the vaccines will prevent one from catching Covid in any of it variants. What it does is make the virus not as virulent so usually, if you are two weeks past your 2nd injection, while you will possibly be infected as the clusters continue to grow (and they will) it, in all probability will not cause you to be hospitalized, or need Oxygen support or ICU ventilation. It will NOT prevent you from catching covid. Pfizer & Moderna are 95 & 94.5% effective (so yes, there IS a 5~6% chance of needing hospitalization (especially if over 60 and already have other underlying medical conditions). Both Sino Vaccines are 50 & 79% effective in preventing serious complications which is not acceptable in the MOH eyes (and I don't blame them). Even if the population hits 95% vaxxed it will not stop people from becoming part of clusters (This whole thing is a clusterf**k) They want to ringfence, won't work as has been seen with the Jurong Fishery port. Singapore is nothing but a large city (/state) whose landmass is the same as NYC (not the greater metropolitan area but NYC proper) You can ringfence cities and states, but the problem here is that a city wide ringfence is actually a country lockdown and without a hinterland, SG dies. It is really going to be endemic and will be the new order unless it burns itself out (I believe the Spanish Flu did just that eventually).
Some anecdotal evidence. My friend's mother, she's in her 80s and suffers from dementia, with deteriorating health was infected recently during the 2nd covid wave in India. Good thing is that she was already vaccinated, I think with AZ. Her symptoms were very mild and no one else in the house was infected including a few who weren't yet vaccinated. This despite her wandering around the house without her mask (suffers from dementia as I said). The doctors feel that it's probably because she was vaccinated.
Definitely has something to do with her being vaccinated. Not only does the vaccine lower the chances of contracting COVID, even in the event that one does contract it, the vaccine helps to mitigate the symptoms, such that they become non-fatal and relatively mild, similar to those experienced with flu.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by smoulder » Thu, 29 Jul 2021 2:46 pm

Yep. Less chance of being infected. Less symptoms /severity if you do get infected. Less chances of hospitalization and apparently less likely to spread your infection.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Max Headroom » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 9:24 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:57 am
Jgrif96229 wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 8:09 am
Delta varient seems to be putting a damper on resuming a new normal.

Case counts and clusters here seem to mount each day even with an vaccination roll out.

Not so sure August is going the way it's being planned. Do you think Singapore will still be phase 2 restrictions come September. USA seeing rebound in cass as they just can't get ahead of Delta.

After 28 months there seems to be no new breakthrough treatment once you get sick.
This is the problem. People don't understand that the case count will continue to mount as long as they test. NONE of the vaccines will prevent one from catching Covid in any of it variants. What it does is make the virus not as virulent so usually, if you are two weeks past your 2nd injection, while you will possibly be infected as the clusters continue to grow (and they will) it, in all probability will not cause you to be hospitalized, or need Oxygen support or ICU ventilation. It will NOT prevent you from catching covid. Pfizer & Moderna are 95 & 94.5% effective (so yes, there IS a 5~6% chance of needing hospitalization (especially if over 60 and already have other underlying medical conditions). Both Sino Vaccines are 50 & 79% effective in preventing serious complications which is not acceptable in the MOH eyes (and I don't blame them). Even if the population hits 95% vaxxed it will not stop people from becoming part of clusters (This whole thing is a clusterf**k) They want to ringfence, won't work as has been seen with the Jurong Fishery port. Singapore is nothing but a large city (/state) whose landmass is the same as NYC (not the greater metropolitan area but NYC proper) You can ringfence cities and states, but the problem here is that a city wide ringfence is actually a country lockdown and without a hinterland, SG dies. It is really going to be endemic and will be the new order unless it burns itself out (I believe the Spanish Flu did just that eventually).
I suggested this a couple of weeks ago as a way to move forward. Inspired by a medical paper that had just been released.

It's the way to go now and of course the gahmen is aware. However, I think they want to have a bit of spare confidence when it comes to hospital capacity/IC/oxygen cases. Once they're sure absolutely no issues are expected on that front, they'll pivot to endemic mode.

One of the prerequisites for this is that more uncles and aunties get vaxxed. This is the bottleneck at the moment. Too many are still scared and/or boh-chap. Which is why we'll be transitioning to a more carrot/stick policy. I.e. non-vaxxed peeps will be enjoying fewer perks as compared to vaxxed peeps.

This should get us to and beyond inflection point.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by abbby » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:13 am

I am not sure why the elderly do not want to get vaccinated? Isn't worse to contract it without having any protection..?
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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Lisafuller » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:29 am

abbby wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:13 am
I am not sure why the elderly do not want to get vaccinated? Isn't worse to contract it without having any protection..?
I think the main issue is a lack of education leading to misconceptions. Many elderly are fearful of receiving the vaccine as they worry about side effects or that it is unnatural.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Lisafuller » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:30 am

smoulder wrote:
Thu, 29 Jul 2021 2:46 pm
Yep. Less chance of being infected. Less symptoms /severity if you do get infected. Less chances of hospitalization and apparently less likely to spread your infection.
The key points are that it mitigates symptoms and prevents spread. As more people become vaccinated, the chances of new clusters emerging will decrease and we will be able to go back to some sort of normal.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Max Headroom » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:48 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:29 am
abbby wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:13 am
I am not sure why the elderly do not want to get vaccinated? Isn't worse to contract it without having any protection..?
I think the main issue is a lack of education leading to misconceptions. Many elderly are fearful of receiving the vaccine as they worry about side effects or that it is unnatural.
I wouldn't be surprised also if some of the older generations believe that, Hey, never kena till now, our body power mah, no need vaccine one. And actually, there's something to be said for that.

The problem is that the outcome is a bit too binary to the gahmen's taste; if the older uncles and aunties don't catch it, no worries, sure. But if they do catch it, there's a good chance of it turning way nasty.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by smoulder » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:25 am

abbby wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:13 am
I am not sure why the elderly do not want to get vaccinated? Isn't worse to contract it without having any protection..?
I'm in this whatsapp group with a bunch of Singaporeans. There are often these discussions about vaccination.

There seems to be a whole misinformation campaign which seeks to push for what they are calling "traditional" vaccines vs new fangled mrna vaccines. In my opinion, whoever is behind it is trying to -
1. Somehow prey on people's penchant for all things traditional. Such as "traditional" Chinese medicine.
2. General misinformation and creating fears of the unknown in people's minds and then preying on those fears.

I have a theory why someone would start this - possibly to push for vaccines from China. In any case, people have been fed this and despite the best efforts of the gahmen, some people have enough fear to reject mrna vaccines.

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Re: Delta putting a damper on things global

Post by Lisafuller » Fri, 30 Jul 2021 12:02 pm

smoulder wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 11:25 am
abbby wrote:
Fri, 30 Jul 2021 10:13 am
I am not sure why the elderly do not want to get vaccinated? Isn't worse to contract it without having any protection..?
I'm in this whatsapp group with a bunch of Singaporeans. There are often these discussions about vaccination.

There seems to be a whole misinformation campaign which seeks to push for what they are calling "traditional" vaccines vs new fangled mrna vaccines. In my opinion, whoever is behind it is trying to -
1. Somehow prey on people's penchant for all things traditional. Such as "traditional" Chinese medicine.
2. General misinformation and creating fears of the unknown in people's minds and then preying on those fears.

I have a theory why someone would start this - possibly to push for vaccines from China. In any case, people have been fed this and despite the best efforts of the gahmen, some people have enough fear to reject mrna vaccines.
And unfortunately the elderly are not able to separate fact from fraud.

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