Buying a HDB or Condominium?

[Lisafuller]

All HDB estates now have exercise corners every few blocks that have some basic exercise equipment. No gym membership required, everyone is free to use it. Town council maintains it too.

Swimming pool wise, you can deduct the entrance fee from your ActiveSG account but that’s for citizens and maybe PRs. Not all condo pools are built equally. Some are smaller, some bigger. Some have one pool, some have more than one pool.

Some HDB projects at Boon Keng and Punggol Central do require card access at the ground floor if you’re anal about “security”. IMO, condo security ain’t completely watertight either, I’ve been to plenty of condos for my job and no one has ever stopped me and asked for my particulars. A crook ain’t gonna be stopped be a mere unarmed guard or two.

Condos are usually tinier compared to HDBs. If you want a bigger condo space, prepare to shell out a kidney or two. Older condos are bigger though.

My colleague personally prefers the kampung spirit of HDBs compared to condos.

If you can afford it without going into debt by all means get a condo. stackedhomes on Instagram does pretty good analysis for various condo launches as well as HDBs.

As someone who grew up in HDB all my life, HDB is perfectly fine. Dawson and Pinnacle@Duxton are some examples of HDB projects that look like a condo if you want a HDB that “looks nicer”.

For sure there's pros and cons for both. I like the extra space that you can get in an hdb and it saves you a great deal of money as well. On the other hand I appreciate the facilities, especially the swimming pools in the condo.

In my opinion, in Singapore, security is not so much about preventing burglaries and such but just to ensure that outsiders are not walking in to use the facilities for free.

True, but for families with children, it is comforting to know there is a security detail patrolling the area at all times. Helps with peace of mind because you can safely let your children play downstairs on their own or with other kids, without needing to be there every second.

[Lisafuller]

Normally the choice will be determined by a person's residency and economic profile. Those with lower incomes usually will go for HDBs and those with higher incomes can go for condos.

HDB Cons
For PRs, when buying a HDB, you cannot own private property anywhere and must sell them within 6 months. This rule started in 2010, so owners from before that time are not covered.
HDBs have many rules such as number of occupants, type and amount of pets, and others.
HDBs have a 5 year Minimum Occupation period that you must fulfill before being able to sell them.
If there are any major upgrades that are approved by residents (e.g lift upgrades, expansions), PR owners will pay the full price for them while citizens are subsidized. To ensure that you are not affected, you should buy the newer HDBs where the upgrades are not necessary.
It has the normal problems of leasehold properties such as that the value of the unit will start to decrease after some time.
For violating some rules, HDB authorities can seize your property. They will acquire it for less than its current market value so you will lose out.

HDB Pros
For PRs, owning a HDB is the best residential option if you cannot afford condos. Over time, it is better than renting for most people.
Older HDBs have a lot more space than many condo units of the same type.
If you prefer to engage with the local community and not live in an expat bubble, HDBs are the way to go.

Generally from what I’ve observed, HDBs seem to be the option for serious occupants rather than those looking to make a profit or purchase the unit as an investment. In that sense, there is probably less turnover, and you can expect your neighbours to be more or less the same for as long as you live there, which I guess contributes to the sense of “kampung” spirit.

[smoulder]

All HDB estates now have exercise corners every few blocks that have some basic exercise equipment. No gym membership required, everyone is free to use it. Town council maintains it too.

Swimming pool wise, you can deduct the entrance fee from your ActiveSG account but that’s for citizens and maybe PRs. Not all condo pools are built equally. Some are smaller, some bigger. Some have one pool, some have more than one pool.

Some HDB projects at Boon Keng and Punggol Central do require card access at the ground floor if you’re anal about “security”. IMO, condo security ain’t completely watertight either, I’ve been to plenty of condos for my job and no one has ever stopped me and asked for my particulars. A crook ain’t gonna be stopped be a mere unarmed guard or two.

Condos are usually tinier compared to HDBs. If you want a bigger condo space, prepare to shell out a kidney or two. Older condos are bigger though.

My colleague personally prefers the kampung spirit of HDBs compared to condos.

If you can afford it without going into debt by all means get a condo. stackedhomes on Instagram does pretty good analysis for various condo launches as well as HDBs.

As someone who grew up in HDB all my life, HDB is perfectly fine. Dawson and Pinnacle@Duxton are some examples of HDB projects that look like a condo if you want a HDB that “looks nicer”.

For sure there's pros and cons for both. I like the extra space that you can get in an hdb and it saves you a great deal of money as well. On the other hand I appreciate the facilities, especially the swimming pools in the condo.

In my opinion, in Singapore, security is not so much about preventing burglaries and such but just to ensure that outsiders are not walking in to use the facilities for free.

True, but for families with children, it is comforting to know there is a security detail patrolling the area at all times. Helps with peace of mind because you can safely let your children play downstairs on their own or with other kids, without needing to be there every second.

That's a good point.

[malcontent]

Generally from what I’ve observed, HDBs seem to be the option for serious occupants rather than those looking to make a profit or purchase the unit as an investment. In that sense, there is probably less turnover, and you can expect your neighbours to be more or less the same for as long as you live there, which I guess contributes to the sense of “kampung” spirit.

They are serious alright, because for the vast majority of people here, it is the only affordable housing option available (although many struggle to even afford an HDB).

Just to put it in perspective:

The average price of a public leasehold HDB flat here is currently S$532k (US$400k) with an average size of 1,280 square feet.

The average price of a private freehold landed house in the US is US$300k, with an average size of 2,300 square feet.

This is especially hard to afford for the lower end working class here who are typically getting wages that are 1/3 to 1/2 the pay versus the same job in the US.

[Lisafuller]

Generally from what I’ve observed, HDBs seem to be the option for serious occupants rather than those looking to make a profit or purchase the unit as an investment. In that sense, there is probably less turnover, and you can expect your neighbours to be more or less the same for as long as you live there, which I guess contributes to the sense of “kampung” spirit.

They are serious alright, because for the vast majority of people here, it is the only affordable housing option available (although many struggle to even afford an HDB).

Just to put it in perspective:

The average price of a public leasehold HDB flat here is currently S$532k (US$400k) with an average size of 1,280 square feet.

The average price of a private freehold landed house in the US is US$300k, with an average size of 2,300 square feet.

This is especially hard to afford for the lower end working class here who are typically getting wages that are 1/3 to 1/2 the pay versus the same job in the US.

Good point, housing here is unbelievably overpriced.

[midlet2013]

Generally from what I’ve observed, HDBs seem to be the option for serious occupants rather than those looking to make a profit or purchase the unit as an investment. In that sense, there is probably less turnover, and you can expect your neighbours to be more or less the same for as long as you live there, which I guess contributes to the sense of “kampung” spirit.

They are serious alright, because for the vast majority of people here, it is the only affordable housing option available (although many struggle to even afford an HDB).

Just to put it in perspective:

The average price of a public leasehold HDB flat here is currently S$532k (US$400k) with an average size of 1,280 square feet.

The average price of a private freehold landed house in the US is US$300k, with an average size of 2,300 square feet.

This is especially hard to afford for the lower end working class here who are typically getting wages that are 1/3 to 1/2 the pay versus the same job in the US.

Good point, housing here is unbelievably overpriced.

Is there any point in comparing avg incomes n prices of US with Singapore. US Has so much diversity. There r places where u can get a mansion for the same price for which u will get a garage in another. Same for incomes.

Singapore shd be compared with only cities like NY La Sf etc.

I agree that house prices r over priced and not the best financial investment. That’s why even though we have been here 15 years and have PR for more than 8 , we still rent and I feel it’s the best decision we made. Cuz the growth via investments has upleveled us financially in a way that owning an apartment would never have done.

[malcontent]

I agree, and an expensive city like SF is probably the most suitable for comparison.

In SF the average price per square foot recently surpassed the $1,000 (S$1,353psf) mark; that is quite comparable to SG.

How about the pay? I know the following is an extreme example, but the fact that a cleaner can make this kind of money in SF does highlight just how different the pay scale is.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/11/01/ ... last-year/

[abbby]

in Singapore, I think the prices are just rising too fast imagine new launches indicate prices was $1,400/psf but some buyers ended up paying over $2,000/psf on the launch date due to the pent up demand the large number of cheques that came in...I am not sure how they are going to sell it for a profit in future.

[malcontent]

Property appreciation has actually been tame here over the past decade, the cooling measures have kept a lid on things. The rate of price increase here has been almost half of what was seen in markets like SF & HK.

If we look at the SRX property index, it was sitting at 150 ten years ago and is now around 200 today, a 33% increase. That might seem big, but it’s only around 3% compounded annually for 10 years. Not crazy at all.

If 25 years here has taught me anything, it is that property will NEVER be cheap. The best you can hope for is a temporary glut from overbuilding combined with an economic downturn, but even that won’t make things cheap, just somewhat less expensive. This is a small island, there is only so much space.

As for the cooling measures, these can only prevent short-term speculative bubbles, but it can’t hold back the inevitable long-term growth in prices that will naturally occur as building costs increase and space to build becomes more scarce over time.

[midlet2013]

For me , the worst price of property increase is the rat-race and the psychological damage. The thought dominates FM radio, news, discussions and consumes a large fraction of a person's life. A person starting in middle class has one chance of living well and becoming well-off and often putting all ur money in the property-basket backfires. Even if it works, not worth the headache.

And after all this, a 3-5% annual return is not worth the headache

[midlet2013]

Property appreciation has actually been tame here over the past decade, the cooling measures have kept a lid on things. The rate of price increase here has been almost half of what was seen in markets like SF & HK.

If we look at the SRX property index, it was sitting at 150 ten years ago and is now around 200 today, a 33% increase. That might seem big, but it’s only around 3% compounded annually for 10 years. Not crazy at all.

If 25 years here has taught me anything, it is that property will NEVER be cheap. The best you can hope for is a temporary glut from overbuilding combined with an economic downturn, but even that won’t make things cheap, just somewhat less expensive. This is a small island, there is only so much space.

As for the cooling measures, these can only prevent short-term speculative bubbles, but it can’t hold back the inevitable long-term growth in prices that will naturally occur as building costs increase and space to build becomes more scarce over time.

You are rite. But I feel majority of people dont understand Compound Interest .

[MOCHS]

Err, are you all forgetting the obvious lack of land space which is why property is expensive here and many establishments are built vertically instead of horizontally.

[Lisafuller]

Err, are you all forgetting the obvious lack of land space which is why property is expensive here and many establishments are built vertically instead of horizontally.

My thoughts exactly. The entire reason why prices are so inflated is because land is so scarce, its the same reason why we needed to build up rather than out. The simple laws of demand dictate that with a demand greater than the supply, prices will rise, and thats exactly the phenomenon taking place here.

[the observer]

In the past, old shophouses or terraces used to house 10-15 workers. That has changed due to covid. The rules states that it has to be way less, per unit of dwelling. Some demand for additional dwellings there, to satisfy regulators.

In the past, 300k Malaysian workers used to cross the border daily. That has changed due to covid. A % of them now rents rooms here. It could be 50k or it could be 250k, but there’s certainly demand there.

Just before covid, interest rate was 2.5% or so, now it’s around 1%. Mortgage has just gotten cheaper. Coupled with no holidays, a lot of people has spare cash lying around to spend on housing. Quasi demand there.

In the past, new dwellings take 3-4 years to build. Now it takes 5-6 years. Some demand there for existing stock. Especially for new couples and what not leaving their parents nest.

In the past, people work in offices. Now people work from home, and there’s a sudden lack of space especially for people with a large family nucleus. So, additional demand there for housing.

In the past, workers and supplies can easily come into sg for housing. Due to covid, fresh workers can’t come in easily. Materials costs are going up. Hence new houses break even costs has to go up. If new home prices are priced higher, it will have a spill over effect on older units, as a competing product.

Caveat: it all has to reach an equilibrium when demand tapers off.

[Max Headroom]

In the past, old shophouses or terraces used to house 10-15 workers. That has changed due to covid. The rules states that it has to be way less, per unit of dwelling. Some demand for additional dwellings there, to satisfy regulators.

In the past, 300k Malaysian workers used to cross the border daily. That has changed due to covid. A % of them now rents rooms here. It could be 50k or it could be 250k, but there’s certainly demand there.

Just before covid, interest rate was 2.5% or so, now it’s around 1%. Mortgage has just gotten cheaper. Coupled with no holidays, a lot of people has spare cash lying around to spend on housing. Quasi demand there.

In the past, new dwellings take 3-4 years to build. Now it takes 5-6 years. Some demand there for existing stock. Especially for new couples and what not leaving their parents nest.

In the past, people work in offices. Now people work from home, and there’s a sudden lack of space especially for people with a large family nucleus. So, additional demand there for housing.

In the past, workers and supplies can easily come into sg for housing. Due to covid, fresh workers can’t come in easily. Materials costs are going up. Hence new houses break even costs has to go up. If new home prices are priced higher, it will have a spill over effect on older units, as a competing product.

Caveat: it all has to reach an equilibrium when demand tapers off.

I reckon these points are pretty much on the mark.

Also, it's supply and demand, sure. But the thing that's whisking up the market without any added benefit whatsoever is property speculators. This needs to end. In fact, there will come a time it's no longer allowed and then years later we'll wonder how this sort of thing could have been permitted at all.

"Multiple properties" this and "multiple properties that". I hear this so often it's absurd. Some of these buggers collect properties like stamps, bending the rules and toeing the line left right centre so they can pull this stunt. Of course it's at the expense of the Singaporean public, average peeps that just want to own a home to live in.

Too many properties remain empty, unused, choped by some moron with dollar signs flashing in his eyes. Meanwhile home values go skyward, resulting in serious asset inflation, condemning the population to a hamster wheel existence.

Madness.