Career/Industry Change in SG

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trojan1988
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Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by trojan1988 » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 5:37 pm

Hi all,

I would love to hear your thoughts on my situation. I know dealing in absolutes is silly in the murky world of MOM and ICA, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

I a European and have been in SG for 7 years, as a healthcare professional. I have had no issues getting EPs approved for myself, and have worked several in major public and private hospitals in Singapore over that time.

I recently begun project managing in the hospital (in addition to my clinical work). This lead me to getting certain certificates recently (PMP, Lean 6 Sigma and a Postgrad Dip.).

I have been interviewing for a role in a Healthcare IT company (MNC). Its progressing well. During the interview the hiring manager explicitly said they cannot find someone with my clinical expertise, coupled with my certifications. My experience and qualifications are quite unique.

I believe they will offer me the role. This will likely be at least a 50% salary increase and a job title that is not directly related to my primary qualifications.

I perhaps am overthinking it, but I have heard of EPs being rejected if there is a sudden change in career/job title, or a suspicious rise in salary.

Am I overthinking it?

Thanks in advance!

sp786
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by sp786 » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:21 pm

I am not expert but i know chiropractors getting EP approved from Europe so yours being a niche one most probably would. May the power of the great lord Tengri and Guan Yuo be with you

trojan1988
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by trojan1988 » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:37 pm

sp786 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
I am not expert but i know chiropractors getting EP approved from Europe so yours being a niche one most probably would. May the power of the great lord Tengri and Guan Yuo be with you
Hi there,

I appreciate the reply.

My current EP still has 18 months on it, and I do not think renewal then will be an issue.

My concern is with a new role, in a new industry- will my chances be affected by sudden changes in salary?

Thanks

smoulder
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by smoulder » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:45 pm

trojan1988 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:37 pm
sp786 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
I am not expert but i know chiropractors getting EP approved from Europe so yours being a niche one most probably would. May the power of the great lord Tengri and Guan Yuo be with you
Hi there,

I appreciate the reply.

My current EP still has 18 months on it, and I do not think renewal then will be an issue.

My concern is with a new role, in a new industry- will my chances be affected by sudden changes in salary?

Thanks
Surely the HR folks at your prospective employer should be able to assess this. I'm sure they wouldn't want to jump through hoops to recruit, roll out an offer, apply for an EP and then get rejected because they didn't do their homework. It doesn't make sense. I think SMS (one of the mods here) will probably have a very good idea.... I believe he was an HR guy at some point in time.

trojan1988
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by trojan1988 » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:56 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:45 pm
trojan1988 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:37 pm
sp786 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
I am not expert but i know chiropractors getting EP approved from Europe so yours being a niche one most probably would. May the power of the great lord Tengri and Guan Yuo be with you
Hi there,

I appreciate the reply.

My current EP still has 18 months on it, and I do not think renewal then will be an issue.

My concern is with a new role, in a new industry- will my chances be affected by sudden changes in salary?

Thanks
Surely the HR folks at your prospective employer should be able to assess this. I'm sure they wouldn't want to jump through hoops to recruit, roll out an offer, apply for an EP and then get rejected because they didn't do their homework. It doesn't make sense. I think SMS (one of the mods here) will probably have a very good idea.... I believe he was an HR guy at some point in time.
Thanks for your reply.

I agree, and this is the logic I'm banking on.

But I have heard stories of folks getting EPs rejected because their job titles didnt match their experience or sudden changes in salary...or perhaps I'm overthinking it. I tend to be very pessimistic when dealing with SG Government bodies.

In Singapore you can never count your chickens before they hatch.

Thanks again!

trojan1988
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by trojan1988 » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:57 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:45 pm
trojan1988 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:37 pm
sp786 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:21 pm
I am not expert but i know chiropractors getting EP approved from Europe so yours being a niche one most probably would. May the power of the great lord Tengri and Guan Yuo be with you
Hi there,

I appreciate the reply.

My current EP still has 18 months on it, and I do not think renewal then will be an issue.

My concern is with a new role, in a new industry- will my chances be affected by sudden changes in salary?

Thanks
Surely the HR folks at your prospective employer should be able to assess this. I'm sure they wouldn't want to jump through hoops to recruit, roll out an offer, apply for an EP and then get rejected because they didn't do their homework. It doesn't make sense. I think SMS (one of the mods here) will probably have a very good idea.... I believe he was an HR guy at some point in time.
Thanks for your reply.

I agree, and this is the logic I'm banking on.

But I have heard stories of folks getting EPs rejected because their job titles didnt match their experience or sudden changes in salary...or perhaps I'm overthinking it. I tend to be very pessimistic when dealing with SG Government bodies.

In Singapore you can never count your chickens before they hatch.

Thanks again!

sp786
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by sp786 » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:59 pm

Your concern about conflicting job title vs area of expertise would have to be justified by your employer in their application. Top immigration consultants who work with such MNCs or local companies do that pretty well and most companies engage such companies to do this through their HR and that may not be transparent to you.

nelyanne
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by nelyanne » Sun, 18 Jul 2021 11:02 pm

Be prepared that MOM may ask for additional clarifications during the process. Education certificates could be useful.

Myasis Dragon
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by Myasis Dragon » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 2:00 am

In my experience, project management is a highly desirable skill according to the gahmen. I never had an issue in getting EP's for project managers, especially ones with the PMP certification.

trojan1988
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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by trojan1988 » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 7:29 am

nelyanne wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 11:02 pm
Be prepared that MOM may ask for additional clarifications during the process. Education certificates could be useful.
Thanks for this.

Yes, I have all my certificates.
Myasis Dragon wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 2:00 am
In my experience, project management is a highly desirable skill according to the gahmen. I never had an issue in getting EP's for project managers, especially ones with the PMP certification.
Wow, that is interesting. I would have thought going from a highly specialised job title to a generic one like "project manager" would raise questions. I did not know that Project Manager was considered highly desirable! In fact, I thought quite the opposite!

Thanks for the reply, put my mind at ease.

Still won't be counting any chickens.

By the way, whats your take on salary increases? I don't think I'll be overpaid for the new work. If anything, I am underpaid now. How would that go down as justification? The lack of transparency is what kills me.

Thanks again!
sp786 wrote:
Sun, 18 Jul 2021 6:59 pm
Your concern about conflicting job title vs area of expertise would have to be justified by your employer in their application. Top immigration consultants who work with such MNCs or local companies do that pretty well and most companies engage such companies to do this through their HR and that may not be transparent to you.
Yes, I have no idea what to expect. Previously, EP renewal was kind of a formality. Not sure what to expect this time round. Appreciate your reply.

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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by abbby » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:52 am

But I think in your line of work - Healthcare Professional would be a thumbs up in today's economic situation. IMO, I just think your field is in demand..anything healthcare-related.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)

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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by Myasis Dragon » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:52 am

trojan1988 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 7:29 am
Wow, that is interesting. I would have thought going from a highly specialised job title to a generic one like "project manager" would raise questions.
Except, real project management IS highly specialized. I spent most of my 8 years in Singapore rescuing failed projects (all multi-million dollar failures with significant impact on the ability of the client to do business).

And why did they fail? Because of the prevailing attitude that anyone can run a project... it's generic, you know... Joe down the hall can do it.

Except... Joe could f*ckup a two car funeral. Not his fault though... he didn't know he have to deal with cheap managers who didn't want to pay for proper planning. He didn't know that he'd be stuck with incompetent suppliers whose idea of a knowledge base was typing a query into Google Chrome or that vendor training consisted of "See Mary to find out how to do it." He didn't realize that intra corporate politics could destroy the best laid plans of mice and project managers.

The Singapore government, as a huge investor in Singapore business via Temasek, knows full well what happens when incompetents run a project, especially a big one.

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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by smoulder » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:22 pm

Myasis Dragon wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:52 am
trojan1988 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 7:29 am
Wow, that is interesting. I would have thought going from a highly specialised job title to a generic one like "project manager" would raise questions.
Except, real project management IS highly specialized. I spent most of my 8 years in Singapore rescuing failed projects (all multi-million dollar failures with significant impact on the ability of the client to do business).

And why did they fail? Because of the prevailing attitude that anyone can run a project... it's generic, you know... Joe down the hall can do it.

Except... Joe could f*ckup a two car funeral. Not his fault though... he didn't know he have to deal with cheap managers who didn't want to pay for proper planning. He didn't know that he'd be stuck with incompetent suppliers whose idea of a knowledge base was typing a query into Google Chrome or that vendor training consisted of "See Mary to find out how to do it." He didn't realize that intra corporate politics could destroy the best laid plans of mice and project managers.

The Singapore government, as a huge investor in Singapore business via Temasek, knows full well what happens when incompetents run a project, especially a big one.
So true. Too many people think that project management is a bit of being a d1ck to vendors and thinking that they will just do what they have to. Too many think that an excel sheet and a bit of hot air (refer to the previous sentence) is all you need to manage projects.

I guess it is up to HR and the agencies to write an EP application which is convincing enough to the MOM to highlight how the new recruit has deep domain knowledge and a flair for real project management.

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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by trojan1988 » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 4:31 pm

Myasis Dragon wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:52 am

Except, real project management IS highly specialized. I spent most of my 8 years in Singapore rescuing failed projects (all multi-million dollar failures with significant impact on the ability of the client to do business).

And why did they fail? Because of the prevailing attitude that anyone can run a project... it's generic, you know... Joe down the hall can do it.

Except... Joe could f*ckup a two car funeral. Not his fault though... he didn't know he have to deal with cheap managers who didn't want to pay for proper planning. He didn't know that he'd be stuck with incompetent suppliers whose idea of a knowledge base was typing a query into Google Chrome or that vendor training consisted of "See Mary to find out how to do it." He didn't realize that intra corporate politics could destroy the best laid plans of mice and project managers.

The Singapore government, as a huge investor in Singapore business via Temasek, knows full well what happens when incompetents run a project, especially a big one.
Thanks for that! Yeah, very true. Of course project management (the work) is specific. However, the job title itself is not. I'm glad that you think the Government recognises this distinction.
smoulder wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 12:22 pm
I guess it is up to HR and the agencies to write an EP application which is convincing enough to the MOM to highlight how the new recruit has deep domain knowledge and a flair for real project management.
Yes, this is the crux of the matter. And is what's driving me nuts. It's so disheartening that a poorly-written letter, or some other murky algorithm could take this opportunity away. I guess it's out of my hands...Thanks for reply.


Thanks to everyone who weighed in. I feel better. What a helpful bunch you all are!

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Re: Career/Industry Change in SG

Post by Myasis Dragon » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:44 pm

trojan1988 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 4:31 pm
Thanks for that! Yeah, very true. Of course project management (the work) is specific. However, the job title itself is not. I'm glad that you think the Government recognises this distinction.
My business card said, "Project Manager". I'd walk into a company where they had "Project Manager I", "Project Manager II", and "Senior Project Manager", or in a bank, "Special Projects Vice President", and they'd all ask me, "So how you run a big project like this when you're only a project manager?"

I wouldn't sweat title inflation. I mean, the programmers of yesteryear are now all software engineers. Don't forget that the fancy ass titles that show up are a way to give employees a sense of self importance without giving them any more money.

Inside sales >>>>> Account executive
Manager >>>>> Director
IT Manager >>>>> Chief Technologist
Copywriter >>>>> Media Content Creator

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