Does the government consider race when granting PR?

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:07 am

I'm currently sitting like Addadude (actually we talked about this) as I'm also thinking along similar lines). The circumstances for my return no longer exist and I cannot see returning and going through the hassle of reestablishing a home in the US as I no longer have my farm there. That was my only reason to return. Now with 3 grandkids here there is a heck of a lot more reasons to just grin & bear it as long as it lasts.
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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by malcontent » Sat, 10 Jul 2021 2:25 am

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Sat, 10 Jul 2021 12:07 am
I'm currently sitting like Addadude (actually we talked about this) as I'm also thinking along similar lines). The circumstances for my return no longer exist and I cannot see returning and going through the hassle of reestablishing a home in the US as I no longer have my farm there. That was my only reason to return. Now with 3 grandkids here there is a heck of a lot more reasons to just grin & bear it as long as it lasts.
Be sure to read up on Social Security for Singapore Citizens (they actually have rules that are different by country citizenship). I would assume you’d still qualify for payments as a Singapore citizen while living in Singapore, since you put in enough years working in the US, but it’s always good to check. But, how it is taxed will definitely change as you will become a nonresident alien for US tax purposes. For nonresident aliens living outside the US, they will apply a flat 30% nonresident withholding tax on 85% of the benefit, so effectively a flat 25.5% tax.

Likewise, once you become a nonresident alien, you need to be aware of the potential 40% estate tax on any US assets/investments. It is usually advisable to switch to London traded investments, which would be totally free of estate tax, even for US citizen beneficiaries.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by PNGMK » Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:08 am

malcontent wrote:
Fri, 09 Jul 2021 11:51 pm
It is surprising how many convert. But it is needed, Singapore born Singaporeans are becoming more and more rare… already less that half the population. I think quite a few would prefer a smaller population here - it’s still crowded, even with no tourists and many staying at home!
A few percentage convert and then leave for greener pastures (to the USA and Oz from what I've seen). A few percent of native born also migrate on.
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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by Myasis Dragon » Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:56 am

malcontent wrote:
Fri, 09 Jul 2021 11:51 pm
It is surprising how many convert. But it is needed, Singapore born Singaporeans are becoming more and more rare… already less that half the population. I think quite a few would prefer a smaller population here - it’s still crowded, even with no tourists and many staying at home!
Are you saying that less than half of Singapore citizens in Singapore right now are locally born?

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by malcontent » Sat, 10 Jul 2021 2:24 pm

Myasis Dragon wrote:
Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:56 am
malcontent wrote:
Fri, 09 Jul 2021 11:51 pm
It is surprising how many convert. But it is needed, Singapore born Singaporeans are becoming more and more rare… already less that half the population. I think quite a few would prefer a smaller population here - it’s still crowded, even with no tourists and many staying at home!
Are you saying that less than half of Singapore citizens in Singapore right now are locally born?
It is believed that less than half of the TOTAL population here are locally born Singaporeans. In 2020, 3.5m were citizens, 2.2m non-citizens, for a total of 5.7m. Half of the 5.7m is 2.85m. So out of the 3.5m citizens, it means more than 650k citizens would have been born elsewhere.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by Myasis Dragon » Sat, 10 Jul 2021 11:01 pm

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by x9200 » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:31 am

malcontent wrote:
Sat, 10 Jul 2021 2:24 pm
Myasis Dragon wrote:
Sat, 10 Jul 2021 10:56 am
malcontent wrote:
Fri, 09 Jul 2021 11:51 pm
It is surprising how many convert. But it is needed, Singapore born Singaporeans are becoming more and more rare… already less that half the population. I think quite a few would prefer a smaller population here - it’s still crowded, even with no tourists and many staying at home!
Are you saying that less than half of Singapore citizens in Singapore right now are locally born?
It is believed that less than half of the TOTAL population here are locally born Singaporeans. In 2020, 3.5m were citizens, 2.2m non-citizens, for a total of 5.7m. Half of the 5.7m is 2.85m. So out of the 3.5m citizens, it means more than 650k citizens would have been born elsewhere.
It could be a complex puzzle. On one hand some SC are not born in Singapore but also many foreigners applying for SC are born in Singapore and this may be rather significant fraction (20-50% of the applicants?).

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by the observer » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am

The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by malcontent » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 9:45 am

x9200 wrote: It could be a complex puzzle. On one hand some SC are not born in Singapore but also many foreigners applying for SC are born in Singapore and this may be rather significant fraction (20-50% of the applicants?).
True, many SC families are living overseas and have children not born in Singapore. At the same time you’ve got foreign families living in Singapore who give birth here; their children may not be citizens at the time of birth, but may become SC later. The statistics on citizens lacks this kind of breakdown, so one can only estimate using historical trends and math.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:14 am

the observer wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am
The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.
The prejudices are too ingrained. There are *some* local Indians who are suggesting that back in the day, they faced the brunt of it and now they have only got a slight respite because of Indian nationals. Meaning that there were already prejudices. They aren't going to go away with a parliamentary debate.

Also, as long as the racial ratios are maintained at roughly present levels, parliamentary debate or not, it's not really going to get much easier for the average family from India living in their own Indian bubble.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by sp786 » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 4:57 pm

the observer wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am
The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.
Agree with smoulder's opinion on PR. Moreover the "volunteering" system has been gamed very effectively by them on the advices of PR agencies that now after COVID, even for volunteering the local Majoritarians are refusing to take or not respecting even genuine volunteer work from other Indians. There is program called P-Tech spearheaded by an American top IT firm which also partners with other government agencies and MNCs to mentor High School / Poly students from a corporate perspective. Even these students generally don't interact well if the mentor is an expat Indian but they do if the mentor is from the general Majority.

On CECA - India generally imposes heavy tariffs on foreign services which is why you would recall India has a rough up earlier with Trump (Remember Harley Davidson in India?). CECA actually waives a lot of tariffs on SG's investments and services in India. India also has a strict FDI policy that restricts investments in their unicorns, startups etc.

In my personal view The Indian government may benefit from the CECA on other terms but i think it does not benefit anything from movement of its individuals to SG because these individuals' incomes are not taxed back in India which is the opposite of USA that taxes even foreign income. Even if these savings are remitted back to India to an interest bearing scheme, the tax is levied only on the interest and not on the income so transferred.

To be honest, SG is benefiting with returns on investment from CECA while India wants to obtain reliable services of reasonable price from SG. If Indians back in India begin to notice that they are being treated like trash start calling out CECA that it is denting their hard work abroad or their image back home, then the SG government's influence in South Asia and returns on their heavy investments would be at risk.

Trust or Partnership or Friendship are all mutual and not one-sided, therefore, I hope politicization of a FTA does not lead to severe cases of ethnic hatred.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by the observer » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 7:03 pm

sp786 wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 4:57 pm
the observer wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am
The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.
Agree with smoulder's opinion on PR. Moreover the "volunteering" system has been gamed very effectively by them on the advices of PR agencies that now after COVID, even for volunteering the local Majoritarians are refusing to take or not respecting even genuine volunteer work from other Indians. There is program called P-Tech spearheaded by an American top IT firm which also partners with other government agencies and MNCs to mentor High School / Poly students from a corporate perspective. Even these students generally don't interact well if the mentor is an expat Indian but they do if the mentor is from the general Majority.

On CECA - India generally imposes heavy tariffs on foreign services which is why you would recall India has a rough up earlier with Trump (Remember Harley Davidson in India?). CECA actually waives a lot of tariffs on SG's investments and services in India. India also has a strict FDI policy that restricts investments in their unicorns, startups etc.

In my personal view The Indian government may benefit from the CECA on other terms but i think it does not benefit anything from movement of its individuals to SG because these individuals' incomes are not taxed back in India which is the opposite of USA that taxes even foreign income. Even if these savings are remitted back to India to an interest bearing scheme, the tax is levied only on the interest and not on the income so transferred.

To be honest, SG is benefiting with returns on investment from CECA while India wants to obtain reliable services of reasonable price from SG. If Indians back in India begin to notice that they are being treated like trash start calling out CECA that it is denting their hard work abroad or their image back home, then the SG government's influence in South Asia and returns on their heavy investments would be at risk.

Trust or Partnership or Friendship are all mutual and not one-sided, therefore, I hope politicization of a FTA does not lead to severe cases of ethnic hatred.
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Status quo, electorate swings further.

Pander to the public, as you’ve specifically mentioned, incur significant losses to their 100b or so.
Last edited by the observer on Sun, 11 Jul 2021 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 7:07 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:14 am
the observer wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am
The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.
The prejudices are too ingrained. There are *some* local Indians who are suggesting that back in the day, they faced the brunt of it and now they have only got a slight respite because of Indian nationals. Meaning that there were already prejudices. They aren't going to go away with a parliamentary debate.

Also, as long as the racial ratios are maintained at roughly present levels, parliamentary debate or not, it's not really going to get much easier for the average family from India living in their own Indian bubble.
As the parent of an adopted local Singapore Indian daughter I am a bit frustrated with imported Indians. The reality is that they are NOT the same species at all anymore.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by sp786 » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 7:38 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:14 am
the observer wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am
The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.
The prejudices are too ingrained. There are *some* local Indians who are suggesting that back in the day, they faced the brunt of it and now they have only got a slight respite because of Indian nationals. Meaning that there were already prejudices. They aren't going to go away with a parliamentary debate.

Also, as long as the racial ratios are maintained at roughly present levels, parliamentary debate or not, it's not really going to get much easier for the average family from India living in their own Indian bubble.
Agree. This probably could be true because such groups do not work in other countries and lack cultural intelligence. A normal taxi ride would prove this (summarized based on a live incident with co passenger 4 to 5 years back when Uber was there)

Taxi Uncle : You speak good English but look Indian so you from India and work in IT?
Indian : No unker I from Germany and work in Biotech
Taxi Uncle : aahh you look Indian how from German Leh?
Indian : Uncle you look Chinese so you from China oso?
Taxi Uncle : .........
.
Add to that publications like TOC, Independent etc.!

Another strange thing i've noticed is Tamil is a recognized language in Singapore. When an expat Indian tries to speak to a Singaporean Indian who is Tamil as well, the latter avoids Tamil and speaks English or Singlish however that is not the case with other ethnic groups they speak their native language to each other.

The irony is, someone of Chinese race gets attacked by Westerners then Ms. Singapore flashes "Stop Asian Hate" on her dress but they treat Indians the same way albeit the physical altercation but deconstruct them mentally with subtle ways. TBH this is the hypocrisy that one must be frustrated at and not at Indians as a group.
Last edited by sp786 on Sun, 11 Jul 2021 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does the government consider race when granting PR?

Post by smoulder » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 9:03 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 7:07 pm
smoulder wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:14 am
the observer wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 8:55 am
The million dollar question is, post ceca debate, will Indian nationals now find it easier to get PR or is it otherwise?

Afterall, the point of the motion was to cajole the public into being more accepting.
The prejudices are too ingrained. There are *some* local Indians who are suggesting that back in the day, they faced the brunt of it and now they have only got a slight respite because of Indian nationals. Meaning that there were already prejudices. They aren't going to go away with a parliamentary debate.

Also, as long as the racial ratios are maintained at roughly present levels, parliamentary debate or not, it's not really going to get much easier for the average family from India living in their own Indian bubble.
As the parent of an adopted local Singapore Indian daughter I am a bit frustrated with imported Indians. The reality is that they are NOT the same species at all anymore.
And you'd think that despite these differences, the local Indians get treated much differently? The answer apparently is not really. I've seen and heard enough from the older generations to kids in schools and the way they talk to the local Indians to recognize that they somehow treat local Indians similarly.

CECA has just become an extension for lousy treatment of Indians in general.

Now you can probably argue about how *some* of the chaps from India brought it on themselves (reference to different types of Indians) and to an extent I will agree, but I think that's a bit too simplistic.

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