Miami building collasped

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Myasis Dragon
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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by Myasis Dragon » Wed, 30 Jun 2021 10:28 pm

Here is an excellent article in the Washington post on the potential causes of the collapse. If you're an engineering nerd like me, you'll enjoy it.

Let me know if you can't read it, and I'll make it available by another method. The graphics are excellent.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investig ... -collapse/

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by Myasis Dragon » Thu, 01 Jul 2021 5:55 am

From the Washington Post...

Majority of Florida condo board quit in 2019 as squabbling residents dragged out plans for repairs

The president of the board of the Florida condominium that collapsed last week resigned in 2019, partly in frustration over what she saw as the sluggish response to an engineer’s report that identified major structural damage the previous year.

Anette Goldstein was among five members of the seven-member board to resign in two weeks that fall, according to minutes from an Oct. 3 meeting, at a time when the condo association in Surfside was consumed by contentious debate about the multimillion-dollar repairs.

“We work for months to go in one direction and at the very last minute objections are raised that should have been discussed and resolved right in the beginning,” Goldstein wrote in a September 2019 resignation letter. “This pattern has repeated itself over and over, ego battles, undermining the roles of fellow board members, circulation of gossip and mistruths. I am not presenting a very pretty picture of the functioning of our board and many before us, but it describes a board that works very hard but cannot for the reasons above accomplish the goals we set out to accomplish.”

Despite increasingly dire warnings from the board, many condo owners balked at paying for the extensive improvements, which ballooned in price from about $9 million to more than $15 million over the past three years as the building continued to deteriorate, records show.

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 01 Jul 2021 8:26 am

What a nightmare.
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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by x9200 » Thu, 01 Jul 2021 8:35 am

Are there no construction authorities to step in once a qualified construction engineer points to this sort of critical structural damages in the building?

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by Myasis Dragon » Thu, 01 Jul 2021 9:43 am

x9200 wrote:
Thu, 01 Jul 2021 8:35 am
Are there no construction authorities to step in once a qualified construction engineer points to this sort of critical structural damages in the building?
It's a republikkklan state... we don't need no stinkeen government regulations.

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 01 Jul 2021 9:45 am

Desatan hates regulation. Unless it's enforcing his orthodoxy and the big lie that Trump won.
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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by Jgrif96229 » Fri, 02 Jul 2021 12:17 am

Many condos in USA have resident issues when it comes to assessments or arbitration.

They are as fictional as US congress. Where do you think Congress learned thier behave.
Joseph griffin

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by Myasis Dragon » Fri, 02 Jul 2021 1:16 am

Having been a board member of an HOA, I can tell you that far too many HOA members treat the board as the enemy. And they bitch.

"I don't like the tree in my neighbor's yard. Have them take it down."

"Sorry, that tree is not covered by HOA restrictions."

"Well, it should be, and why aren't you doing anything to make it so that I can have that tree cut down?"

OR

"Why is my trash service so expensive?"

"We negotiate the trash contract each year and always look for the best deal."

"Well, you must not be doing your job because my trash service is too expensive. I'm going to have to vote for someone else next time."

"We always look for the best deal. If you can find something better, we'd be happy to look into it."

"That's your job, not mine."

"OK, how about I resign my board member position and you take my place?"

"Oh, no, I don't have time for all this nonsense."

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by x9200 » Fri, 02 Jul 2021 5:53 am

Myasis Dragon wrote:
Thu, 01 Jul 2021 9:43 am
x9200 wrote:
Thu, 01 Jul 2021 8:35 am
Are there no construction authorities to step in once a qualified construction engineer points to this sort of critical structural damages in the building?
It's a republikkklan state... we don't need no stinkeen government regulations.
So how legal responsibility goes in cases like that? One obvious point to be proven is if the disaster was imminent or very likely to happen and all responsible parties were aware of this - I expect this may be difficult, but let's assume it was the case. The board wanted to rectify the issues but the owners didn't agree. This seems to give immunity to the board, especially if some of the members resigned. What's next? Even if there is no regulations I guess there should be something over the line of criminal negligence?

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by Myasis Dragon » Fri, 02 Jul 2021 6:22 am

x9200 wrote:
Fri, 02 Jul 2021 5:53 am
Myasis Dragon wrote:
Thu, 01 Jul 2021 9:43 am
x9200 wrote:
Thu, 01 Jul 2021 8:35 am
Are there no construction authorities to step in once a qualified construction engineer points to this sort of critical structural damages in the building?
It's a republikkklan state... we don't need no stinkeen government regulations.
So how legal responsibility goes in cases like that? One obvious point to be proven is if the disaster was imminent or very likely to happen and all responsible parties were aware of this - I expect this may be difficult, but let's assume it was the case. The board wanted to rectify the issues but the owners didn't agree. This seems to give immunity to the board, especially if some of the members resigned. What's next? Even if there is no regulations I guess there should be something over the line of criminal negligence?
You've asked a lot of great questions, x9200, and I am sure that there will be an army of lawyers who will spend years sorting this stuff out.

What seems obvious at this point:

The board will probably have immunity since they didn't ignore the problem but were thwarted in taking action. But, they'll probably be sued anyway by insurance companies and anyone else who loses money because, if they can get a judgment against the HOA, then the HOA members will theoretically liable for that judgment and will be assessed for same (never mind that so many of them have tragically died).

The homeowners themselves are probably insulated by HOA contract and by law so that they don't bear responsibility. But, all remaining homeowners in the unit will probably be sued anyway, with the claim that their failure to act makes them negligent.

It is very likely that each individual homeowner carried insurance of one sort or another... fire, hurricane, lightning... but probably no one thought that insurance would cover a collapsed building. So expect homeowners to be suing insurance companies either individually or as a class action.

So, too, the HOA would have insurance on the building itself, but whether or not something as catastrophic as the collapse is another question entirely. No doubt the insurance company will claim that it is an act of god... but I cannot possibly imagine that the HOA would not sue for compensation.

And of course, unless the original developers are long gone, they, too, will be sued for constructing a deficient building, whether true or not.

And finally, somebody will sue the various government jurisdictions involved for not having sufficient regulations and inspections to keep this from happening. Of course, the state is filled with trumpanzees who have opposed every sort of regulation so this one might be tough sledding.

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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 02 Jul 2021 7:05 am

HOA boards sound a bit like MC here.
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Re: Miami building collasped

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 02 Jul 2021 7:35 am

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/07/01/us/s ... index.html

Amazing story of escape from the Florida Pancake House
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
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Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
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