11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:59 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:55 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 5:46 am
Thx a lot for your response… info asked by you is as below :
- my kids are Indian, though my daughter is born in singapore but there is no option to get citizenship of SG by birth

- I have always applied with family

- didn’t buy condo here because :
A. The family income has reached to current levels after 11 yrs of working, it was not at these levels thruout.

B. As of now the stamp duty is 19-20% for foreigners, which is huge, plus bank loan % is also reduced … it’s a huge risk for me to spend all my savings in buying house here when my resident status is temporary
You mean with 600k a year income, you will finish your entire savings on a condo? I am also similar to you. Indian 41years old, wife is stay at home. I work in banking IT and my income is 100k, I came here in 2009 and my networth in 2009 was 30k SGD. Now my networth is now 1200k SGD, With your current annual income, you can hit my networth in just 2 years. Come'on man, what are you talking about?
Did you manage to get a PR? Your duration of stay has been very long and around 2009 getting PR was comparatively easier.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Wd40 » Wed, 21 Jul 2021 9:31 am

sp786 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:59 pm

Did you manage to get a PR? Your duration of stay has been very long and around 2009 getting PR was comparatively easier.
No, just like OP, I have applied atleast 6 times and rejected everytime. In 2009 they already started cutting the number of approvals, you can see the figures 2009 it was like 30k and that figure has stayed until now. It was 2008 when there were record number of PRs given. The advice was that to wait for 2 years and then apply for PR, I waited until 2012 and then applied and was rejected after 9 months wait, after they asked for additional details about my family members, this is crazy because all my family members are well settled, bro in UK, sis in australia. Parents extremely well to do, with more wealth than they can spend in their lifetimes and we dont get along so well, they never even came and stayed with us, even for vacation.

So, I feel the Singapore PR approval process is a template based system. If you fit their template you get it, if you dont, you dont get it.

Anyways, I have no regrets, with my very very average abilities and mediocrity, I have managed to do well here in the 12 years I have been here and saved enough to be able to retire early in India in the next 3 years. 15 years of work in Singapore, cut atleast 10 years of my work life had I stayed in India.

And I am not really a career oriented person, I love my free time.

But I feel sorry for people like OP, with his super talented family making 600k a year and he is saying his networth will finish if he buys a condo and he has already spent his prime here in Singapore with hopes of getting PR, which I dont think he will get, beyond 40, nobody wants you.

He should have gone to the US very early on and he would have done very well there. Singapore, is okay for mediocre people, who want to be close to India and live like they are living in India.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by smoulder » Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:07 am

Wd40 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:55 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 5:46 am
Thx a lot for your response… info asked by you is as below :
- my kids are Indian, though my daughter is born in singapore but there is no option to get citizenship of SG by birth

- I have always applied with family

- didn’t buy condo here because :
A. The family income has reached to current levels after 11 yrs of working, it was not at these levels thruout.

B. As of now the stamp duty is 19-20% for foreigners, which is huge, plus bank loan % is also reduced … it’s a huge risk for me to spend all my savings in buying house here when my resident status is temporary
You mean with 600k a year income, you will finish your entire savings on a condo? I am also similar to you. Indian 41years old, wife is stay at home. I work in banking IT and my income is 100k, I came here in 2009 and my networth in 2009 was 30k SGD. Now my networth is now 1200k SGD, With your current annual income, you can hit my networth in just 2 years and buy a condo outright. Come'on man, what are you talking about?
Exactly what I was thinking. It wouldn't take much to set aside some cash to buy a condo using full cash or mostly cash.

Normally, I would prefer to max out the loan amount so that I can put my cash into investments which will outpace the interest rate on a loan, but if I was really desperate to stay put in a place and buying a condo would help, then I see no reason why not. At least, that way, if I have to sell and leave the country, then I would be able to maximize my profit from the sale.

Better idea though, might be to invest in a local business.

Or move to another place. I keep seeing a phrase from people who apply for a PR but keep getting rejected - "we love Singapore and consider it home". Unfortunately, to be blunt, Singapore doesn't really care - they have a template like Wd40 mentioned. If you fit the template and there are sufficient slots for your race that year, then you are in else you are not. Loving it here doesn't matter to them. So if you find yourself in that category, it's probably better to consider other options before it's too late.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:31 am

Wd40 wrote:
Wed, 21 Jul 2021 9:31 am
sp786 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:59 pm

Did you manage to get a PR? Your duration of stay has been very long and around 2009 getting PR was comparatively easier.
No, just like OP, I have applied atleast 6 times and rejected everytime. In 2009 they already started cutting the number of approvals, you can see the figures 2009 it was like 30k and that figure has stayed until now. It was 2008 when there were record number of PRs given. The advice was that to wait for 2 years and then apply for PR, I waited until 2012 and then applied and was rejected after 9 months wait, after they asked for additional details about my family members, this is crazy because all my family members are well settled, bro in UK, sis in australia. Parents extremely well to do, with more wealth than they can spend in their lifetimes and we dont get along so well, they never even came and stayed with us, even for vacation.

So, I feel the Singapore PR approval process is a template based system. If you fit their template you get it, if you dont, you dont get it.

Anyways, I have no regrets, with my very very average abilities and mediocrity, I have managed to do well here in the 12 years I have been here and saved enough to be able to retire early in India in the next 3 years. 15 years of work in Singapore, cut atleast 10 years of my work life had I stayed in India.

And I am not really a career oriented person, I love my free time.

But I feel sorry for people like OP, with his super talented family making 600k a year and he is saying his networth will finish if he buys a condo and he has already spent his prime here in Singapore with hopes of getting PR, which I dont think he will get, beyond 40, nobody wants you.

He should have gone to the US very early on and he would have done very well there. Singapore, is okay for mediocre people, who want to be close to India and live like they are living in India.
This post of yours is a good one! especially how saving money abroad with higher ex. Rate can cut short.your retirement in home country.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Wed, 21 Jul 2021 11:04 am

smoulder wrote:
Wed, 21 Jul 2021 10:07 am
Wd40 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:55 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 5:46 am
Thx a lot for your response… info asked by you is as below :
- my kids are Indian, though my daughter is born in singapore but there is no option to get citizenship of SG by birth

- I have always applied with family

- didn’t buy condo here because :
A. The family income has reached to current levels after 11 yrs of working, it was not at these levels thruout.

B. As of now the stamp duty is 19-20% for foreigners, which is huge, plus bank loan % is also reduced … it’s a huge risk for me to spend all my savings in buying house here when my resident status is temporary
You mean with 600k a year income, you will finish your entire savings on a condo? I am also similar to you. Indian 41years old, wife is stay at home. I work in banking IT and my income is 100k, I came here in 2009 and my networth in 2009 was 30k SGD. Now my networth is now 1200k SGD, With your current annual income, you can hit my networth in just 2 years and buy a condo outright. Come'on man, what are you talking about?
Exactly what I was thinking. It wouldn't take much to set aside some cash to buy a condo using full cash or mostly cash.

Normally, I would prefer to max out the loan amount so that I can put my cash into investments which will outpace the interest rate on a loan, but if I was really desperate to stay put in a place and buying a condo would help, then I see no reason why not. At least, that way, if I have to sell and leave the country, then I would be able to maximize my profit from the sale.

Better idea though, might be to invest in a local business.

Or move to another place. I keep seeing a phrase from people who apply for a PR but keep getting rejected - "we love Singapore and consider it home". Unfortunately, to be blunt, Singapore doesn't really care - they have a template like Wd40 mentioned. If you fit the template and there are sufficient slots for your race that year, then you are in else you are not. Loving it here doesn't matter to them. So if you find yourself in that category, it's probably better to consider other options before it's too late.
Haha true and sg also knows applicants love the job opportunities and not the country itself. It would sound like a politically correct gibberish to ICA :D

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Sun, 05 Sep 2021 11:46 am

the observer wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:18 am
Let’s face it, even with the PR, there’s little chance of you putting your kids in a neighborhood school, especially since they’re now in uwc or tanglin trust or the likes. Why settle for tanjong something primary instead of a coveted private school?

So there’s absolutely negligible integration, now and in the future. I think buying the hse would serve the commitment angle, but not on integrating.

And they’re reserving PRs for citizenship material folks, especially with the fertility rate turning more dire. So I would presume, your biggest bugbear is your ethnic enclave that you currently live in.
Morning,

I was wondering where Indian/Malay/Chinese enclaves were located apart from the obvious places like Little India.

The one near Changi you guys sometimes mention... Well, I haven't found info about it anywhere apart from this forum. Did you go and count the number of ethnic Indians living in the given area or condo :D :D :D (there was one condo mentioned as an Indian enclave, located north of the CBD. the observer, maybe it was even you who mentioned it. I don't remember the condo name now)?

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:38 pm

Work as long as you can and retire in your home country or take that money go to countries like Finland / Canada / Germany that are now calling for immigrants.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by smoulder » Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:40 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Sun, 05 Sep 2021 11:46 am
the observer wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:18 am
Let’s face it, even with the PR, there’s little chance of you putting your kids in a neighborhood school, especially since they’re now in uwc or tanglin trust or the likes. Why settle for tanjong something primary instead of a coveted private school?

So there’s absolutely negligible integration, now and in the future. I think buying the hse would serve the commitment angle, but not on integrating.

And they’re reserving PRs for citizenship material folks, especially with the fertility rate turning more dire. So I would presume, your biggest bugbear is your ethnic enclave that you currently live in.
Morning,

I was wondering where Indian/Malay/Chinese enclaves were located apart from the obvious places like Little India.

The one near Changi you guys sometimes mention... Well, I haven't found info about it anywhere apart from this forum. Did you go and count the number of ethnic Indians living in the given area or condo :D :D :D (there was one condo mentioned as an Indian enclave, located north of the CBD. the observer, maybe it was even you who mentioned it. I don't remember the condo name now)?
Simei green is a famous example of a foreign Indian enclave. There are probably a few others around the eastern side because of their close proximity to CBP where a large number of Indians work in banks in the technology side. You don't really have to count the number of Indian nationals to know that they are a significant number - you just have to make a trip to those areas to know. Also note that there is a difference between local Indians and Indian nationals (reference to "ethnic Indian" in your reply) - not sure if you are able to tell, some non Indian Singaporeans claim to be able to tell but sometimes make mistakes but local Indians sure are able to and often take great pains to point out that they are not fully linked (to put it diplomatically) with their long lost cousins.

There are no foreign Malay enclaves unless you mean Malaysia which is outside Singapore. Chinese enclaves - that would refer to the little red dot. Probably a few smaller enclaves of various other nationalities including various Caucasians.

PS - I'm guessing that you are still relatively new here.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:55 pm

smoulder wrote:
Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:40 pm
Simei green is a famous example of a foreign Indian enclave. There are probably a few others around the eastern side because of their close proximity to CBP where a large number of Indians work in banks in the technology side. You don't really have to count the number of Indian nationals to know that they are a significant number - you just have to make a trip to those areas to know. Also note that there is a difference between local Indians and Indian nationals (reference to "ethnic Indian" in your reply) - not sure if you are able to tell, some non Indian Singaporeans claim to be able to tell but sometimes make mistakes but local Indians sure are able to and often take great pains to point out that they are not fully linked (to put it diplomatically) with their long lost cousins.
Thanks, got it. Yeah, when I said, "Ethnic Indians," I meant expats, not Singaporeans of Indian origin.
smoulder wrote:
Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:40 pm
Probably a few smaller enclaves of various other nationalities including various Caucasians.
Found a few here
Bukit Timah, Tiong Bahru, Dempsey Hill.
Hmmm... Interesting, I lived in a condo in the Bukit Panjang area for 2.5 years and saw only one Caucasian man there (apart from myself :D )
smoulder wrote:
Sun, 05 Sep 2021 12:40 pm
PS - I'm guessing that you are still relatively new here.
Since Feb 2019 in Singapore.
Yeah, and I'm an introvert and an indoor kind of person. So I haven't really explored much here.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by malcontent » Sun, 05 Sep 2021 2:43 pm

American enclaves (higher #’s anyway):

1. Claymore/Draycott/Ardmore (near TAC)
2. Woodgrove, a.k.a. Americatown (by SAS)
3. Sembawang (US military barracks)

Employer paid housing, obviously. I know from my personal network, but the SAS bus routings kinda give it away.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Sun, 05 Sep 2021 3:21 pm

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 05 Sep 2021 2:43 pm
American enclaves (higher #’s anyway):

1. Claymore/Draycott/Ardmore (near TAC)
2. Woodgrove, a.k.a. Americatown (by SAS)
3. Sembawang (US military barracks)

Employer paid housing, obviously. I know from my personal network, but the SAS bus routings kinda give it away.
Also possibly the condominiums along the Singapore river, near Chinatown.
I was surprised by the number of white people I saw there when taking a stroll.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by malcontent » Mon, 06 Sep 2021 12:51 am

There are a few in Chinatown. Including that one American who died here, Shane Todd (that was quite a drama here, and I still believe there is more to it than what was revealed).

But also near the Singapore River, River Valley is a popular area, more often (but not always) with younger and single expats who want to be close to the city and nightlife.

The area where I live, Holland/Farrer is very popular with expats that have young children.

East Coast is popular with more active expats who want access to East Coast Park and like the less polluted and more laid back vibe in that area.

Bukit Timah/Newton area tends to have more Asian expats, but a mix of Western too.

Upper Bukit Timah/Hume Avenue is where you’ll find a similar mix but who are generally on a tighter budget.

Honestly though, I don’t think the neighborhood where you live really makes much difference in your integration score.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 06 Sep 2021 9:49 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 06 Sep 2021 12:51 am
Honestly though, I don’t think the neighborhood where you live really makes much difference in your integration score.
Hmm... A few here suggested the opposite. Stressing that staying in Indian enclaves is a negative factor.
Last edited by PartyLike-A-Russian on Mon, 06 Sep 2021 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by the observer » Mon, 06 Sep 2021 9:51 am

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Mon, 06 Sep 2021 9:49 am
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 06 Sep 2021 12:51 am
Honestly though, I don’t think the neighborhood where you live really makes much difference in your integration score.
Hmm... A few here suggested the opposite. Stressing on staying in Indian enclaves as a negative factor.

You get brownie points for attempting to integrate.
How living in an enclave is construed is up to ICA

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 06 Sep 2021 10:19 am

the observer wrote:
Mon, 06 Sep 2021 9:51 am
PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Mon, 06 Sep 2021 9:49 am
malcontent wrote:
Mon, 06 Sep 2021 12:51 am
Honestly though, I don’t think the neighborhood where you live really makes much difference in your integration score.
Hmm... A few here suggested the opposite. Stressing on staying in Indian enclaves as a negative factor.

You get brownie points for attempting to integrate.
How living in an enclave is construed is up to ICA
Sorry, English is not my mother tongue. So I didn't quite get the meaning of "brownie points".
You were being sarcastic and suggested that any integration efforts were useless? The definition of "brownie points" on Wikipedia made me think so https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownie_points:

Brownie points in modern usage are an imaginary social currency, which can be acquired by doing good deeds or earning favor in the eyes of another, often one's spouse.

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