11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by smoulder » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 3:05 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:57 pm
PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:18 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:01 pm


I wonder how they'd find out without accessing your bank account information. Without doing that, I wonder what are the other ways to deduce if someone is doing this.
Who told you they couldn't access data in your bank account? :D :D :D
OK, kidding. Sure thing, I don't know what they check.
As part to PR application, we give them rights on our financial information.
However .. I haven’t done any major remittances to india … 90%+ of my savings are in Singapore…
I have genuinely felt this place as home and always thought long term all these 11 years … hence the disappointment ….
Off the top of my head, what you are referring to is access to IRAS info. Big difference between that and your bank account (transaction details). You can easily be remitting large sums of money after you are done with your tax payments and if banks are really not being spied on by the gahmen, the ICA should not be able to see what you do with your money. Not directly anyway.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ind28 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 3:11 pm

sp786 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:53 pm
Thanks for posting your details because it confirms my hypothesis that salary is not a criteria as many think of it to be. I think comes down to ethnicity and certain other dynamics based on some data privy to them that is used by them to pre-plan how many of each and what type of industry or salary bracket to choose from. This is justified by 2 things:
1) I know someone of Indian Origin who works in the tech department at a biiiig MNC bank drawing as much salary as yours all by himself but still couldn't get PR has been in SG for 12+ years.
2) I have a senior colleague who is a Latin American in his mid 40s with a Japanese wife and 2 kids and they moved from our Japanese office to SG and got PR in first attempt. Their combined income too was not as high as yours but probably would be 60-70% of yours.
.
The Indian profiles who are getting PR approved are mid level profiles earning 100-150K per year, mid-30s and I know 3-4 such profiles in finance / retail payments & data science areas who got their PR approved late last year. I also recently came across a younger Indian girl, who got her PR recently, around 26 years old who works in automation testing in a Singaporean Insurance company and her salary would be around 6K per month.

Looking at all this ICA must be focusing on profiles suited to that year's demography or some target given to them which is privy to them. Do not engage any agencies even if you want to because the moment they know your high pay they would say they have an ex-ICA officer and loot you for some lame cover letters, recommendation letters, etc.

Aside to the above, your profile & Indian ethnicity has great acceptance in Canada to which you can try.
Hi SP786
The example you mentioned of Indian origin from biiig MNC Bank, 12 yrs in Singapore…what the age group they are from ? do they have kids ?

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 3:24 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 3:11 pm
sp786 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:53 pm
Thanks for posting your details because it confirms my hypothesis that salary is not a criteria as many think of it to be. I think comes down to ethnicity and certain other dynamics based on some data privy to them that is used by them to pre-plan how many of each and what type of industry or salary bracket to choose from. This is justified by 2 things:
1) I know someone of Indian Origin who works in the tech department at a biiiig MNC bank drawing as much salary as yours all by himself but still couldn't get PR has been in SG for 12+ years.
2) I have a senior colleague who is a Latin American in his mid 40s with a Japanese wife and 2 kids and they moved from our Japanese office to SG and got PR in first attempt. Their combined income too was not as high as yours but probably would be 60-70% of yours.
.
The Indian profiles who are getting PR approved are mid level profiles earning 100-150K per year, mid-30s and I know 3-4 such profiles in finance / retail payments & data science areas who got their PR approved late last year. I also recently came across a younger Indian girl, who got her PR recently, around 26 years old who works in automation testing in a Singaporean Insurance company and her salary would be around 6K per month.

Looking at all this ICA must be focusing on profiles suited to that year's demography or some target given to them which is privy to them. Do not engage any agencies even if you want to because the moment they know your high pay they would say they have an ex-ICA officer and loot you for some lame cover letters, recommendation letters, etc.

Aside to the above, your profile & Indian ethnicity has great acceptance in Canada to which you can try.
Hi SP786
The example you mentioned of Indian origin from biiig MNC Bank, 12 yrs in Singapore…what the age group they are from ? do they have kids ?
Hi,

He right now is around 46 years old and yes he has a son studying here and his wife too works here in a commodity trading SME.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 4:29 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:57 pm
I have genuinely felt this place as home and always thought long term all these 11 years … hence the disappointment ….
Hmmm... Maybe really think about buying a condo or starting a business here and hiring several locals.
In the case of a condo, do a research. Maybe you will pay a huge stamp duty of 20% or so but will be able to rent it out later (in the worst case if you have to go back to India or another country) or sell it at a good price. Please do your research here. I'm just throwing out ideas 8-)

Show them more integration (I like this example https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/cn ... t-12280904).

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 4:36 pm

I think ICA can get financial information because if you recall when applying PR they get a consent form from the application to get their financial information which may not just be IRAS info but beyond that as well if needed.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by the observer » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 4:59 pm

sp786 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 3:24 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 3:11 pm
sp786 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:53 pm
Thanks for posting your details because it confirms my hypothesis that salary is not a criteria as many think of it to be. I think comes down to ethnicity and certain other dynamics based on some data privy to them that is used by them to pre-plan how many of each and what type of industry or salary bracket to choose from. This is justified by 2 things:
1) I know someone of Indian Origin who works in the tech department at a biiiig MNC bank drawing as much salary as yours all by himself but still couldn't get PR has been in SG for 12+ years.
2) I have a senior colleague who is a Latin American in his mid 40s with a Japanese wife and 2 kids and they moved from our Japanese office to SG and got PR in first attempt. Their combined income too was not as high as yours but probably would be 60-70% of yours.
.
The Indian profiles who are getting PR approved are mid level profiles earning 100-150K per year, mid-30s and I know 3-4 such profiles in finance / retail payments & data science areas who got their PR approved late last year. I also recently came across a younger Indian girl, who got her PR recently, around 26 years old who works in automation testing in a Singaporean Insurance company and her salary would be around 6K per month.

Looking at all this ICA must be focusing on profiles suited to that year's demography or some target given to them which is privy to them. Do not engage any agencies even if you want to because the moment they know your high pay they would say they have an ex-ICA officer and loot you for some lame cover letters, recommendation letters, etc.

Aside to the above, your profile & Indian ethnicity has great acceptance in Canada to which you can try.
Hi SP786
The example you mentioned of Indian origin from biiig MNC Bank, 12 yrs in Singapore…what the age group they are from ? do they have kids ?
Hi,

He right now is around 46 years old and yes he has a son studying here and his wife too works here in a commodity trading SME.

Sounds like a younger aged profile and a larger family nucleus is preferred.

Based on numbers,
Average ages are going up
TFR is heading down
Gahmen is flushed with cash
So I guess younger folks with larger families (self sustaining - with okay incomes) makes the demographics better

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by smoulder » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 5:39 pm

sp786 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 4:36 pm
I think ICA can get financial information because if you recall when applying PR they get a consent form from the application to get their financial information which may not just be IRAS info but beyond that as well if needed.
From what I recall as well as a quick Google search just now, it is called an IRAS consent form. It's in the name itself. I do recall specifically reading it quite carefully the last time I applied because I wanted to be sure exactly what information I was giving them access to.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:00 pm

Max Headroom wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:00 am
But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check.
Hello,

What is this opinion based on? :)
The CMIO quotas are pretty much in place.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by the observer » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:09 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:00 pm
Max Headroom wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:00 am
But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check.
Hello,

What is this opinion based on? :)
The CMIO quotas are pretty much in place.
Concur. Plunging Chinese TFR per the latest data

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by smoulder » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:28 pm

the observer wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:09 pm
PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:00 pm
Max Headroom wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:00 am
But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check.
Hello,

What is this opinion based on? :)
The CMIO quotas are pretty much in place.
Concur. Plunging Chinese TFR per the latest data
So basically applicable only to the C in CMIO?

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by the observer » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:49 pm

Delete

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PartyLike-A-Russian
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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 10:13 pm

the observer wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:09 pm
PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:00 pm
Max Headroom wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:00 am
But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check.
Hello,

What is this opinion based on? :)
The CMIO quotas are pretty much in place.
Concur. Plunging Chinese TFR per the latest data
Still I didn't get it:
But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 10:58 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 10:13 pm
the observer wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:09 pm
PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:00 pm


Hello,

What is this opinion based on? :)
The CMIO quotas are pretty much in place.
Concur. Plunging Chinese TFR per the latest data
Still I didn't get it:
But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check
I don't think so especially for Indians. For C there has never been pressure and up to a certain extent for M may be. But for I with the recent havoc and misinformation about CECA etc. causing job loss , I think there would be more pressure to restrict PR numbers. SO order of priority now may be CMOI and not CMIO :D

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:42 pm

PRs for I have been greatly reduced since the 2011 GE. The government wasn't watching during the runup to the millenium and brought in '000's of Indian programmers in the run up to the 2000 changeover when they thought all their mainframes would come crashing to a halt. Add to that they decided to make Singapore an IT Hub and again started bringing in hired help (least expensive with decent knowledge were from India), so be it. Unfortunately, they were not paying attention to the demographic numbers and at one point I understand that the I demographic has increased by around 1.5% and the C demographic had fallen by 2%. G not happy so set about trying to right the demographics to where they were comfortable. This meant a pogrom against the burgeoning (in the Gs eyes) I demographic. Unfortunately in the 11 years since the millenium, a lot of those in the first wave had gotten PR and moved up in the food chain to middle management positions like HR Mgmt. Naturally they started creating I shops and a lot were brought in to the point that when the 2015 GE came the local population were up in arms and the election results showed their displeasure.

Since then, they have tried to right the demographics, which meant still curtailing the largest submitters of PR applications (The I demographic) for the next to smallest but smallest ethnic group (O is everybody who doesn't fall into CMI) Smallest ethnic group, largest number of applicants, G is spoiled for choice. Hence, as been noted on here many times already, Those of the I demographic are hard put because ICA has their choice not necessarily for the best candidates but the best potential future Citizens. High flyers with incomes in the 250~300K & up and working in the financial or IT arena are usually hard pressed to gain acceptance as they are flight risks as their reputations have preceded them (their countrymen who came before) and bailed for any lucrative position elsewhere or were parachuted into other branches in other countries. Therefore a flight risk. So they are tending to being left to wither on the vine. Too low of a salary doesn't help Singapore as there must be something not just quite right (Discussed ad nauseum). But as noted time and time again to anybody who has done a bit of research of our archives the thread is obvious by posters and respondents alike. mid-range salaries say 150~250 K are those most likely to have success.

Yeah, all the other stuff also plays into it, e.g., Family structure, kids, integration, applying for whole family, etc., etc. But the G is spoiled for choice by the sheer numbers of I applicants and it makes it rough for those whole fall outside the norms of what the G wants even though they actually want to stay here. Add covid and it's all a crapshoot.
Life isn't about avoiding the bruises. It's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it!

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Wd40 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 11:55 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 5:46 am
Thx a lot for your response… info asked by you is as below :
- my kids are Indian, though my daughter is born in singapore but there is no option to get citizenship of SG by birth

- I have always applied with family

- didn’t buy condo here because :
A. The family income has reached to current levels after 11 yrs of working, it was not at these levels thruout.

B. As of now the stamp duty is 19-20% for foreigners, which is huge, plus bank loan % is also reduced … it’s a huge risk for me to spend all my savings in buying house here when my resident status is temporary
You mean with 600k a year income, you will finish your entire savings on a condo? I am also similar to you. Indian 41years old, wife is stay at home. I work in banking IT and my income is 100k, I came here in 2009 and my networth in 2009 was 30k SGD. Now my networth is now 1200k SGD, With your current annual income, you can hit my networth in just 2 years and buy a condo outright. Come'on man, what are you talking about?
Last edited by Wd40 on Wed, 21 Jul 2021 12:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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