11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Ind28
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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ind28 » Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:57 am

the observer wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:43 am
Chicken and egg situation. Even I would be appalled if it comes to me. A choice between a better private school or an average-ish neighborhood gahmen school. Any logical sane person would choose the better one. More so, when the gahmen knows you can truly afford it.

However, if you have a lesser income, it’s a different proposition altogether. And mind you, the possibility for citizens to send their kids to International Schools even if they can afford it is close to nought.
That’s because they have written lots and lots about how national education can foster a common identity. Etc etc

As for the hood you live in, it’s self explanatory.
The gahmen has taken great pains to impose ethnic quotas in hdbs, because they firmly believe that it helps with integrating. I emphasize that they Firmly believe.
Thx for your thoughts …

Will change my location, as my rent renewal is in dec 2021 - hope it helps …

Disheartening for me is that this time application got rejected in 4 months - not sure if it even reached to evaluation stage

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by abbby » Tue, 29 Jun 2021 11:06 am

Max Headroom wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:00 am
My guess is that if you take that stamp duty on the chin, wait at least one year, then reapply, your odds go up commensurately.

It is a serious premium sure, but you can turn it around, ask yourself, if you're willing to fork it over, what does that say about your commitment to Singapore?

Plus, if you do stay here long-term, your property will likely be in the green when you finally do sell, stamp duty and all.

The balance will be the quota thing, if indeed it exists. But post-Covid, there may be less pressure to keep the PR numbers in check.

Agree...wait out a year or two before reapplying..i think if you apply again now the results will likely to be the same..
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. - Groucho Marx (1890-1977)

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ignorant1 » Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:27 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:33 am
the observer wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:18 am
Let’s face it, even with the PR, there’s little chance of you putting your kids in a neighborhood school, especially since they’re now in uwc or tanglin trust or the likes. Why settle for tanjong something primary instead of a coveted private school?

So there’s absolutely negligible integration, now and in the future. I think buying the hse would serve the commitment angle, but not on integrating.

And they’re reserving PRs for citizenship material folks, especially with the fertility rate turning more dire. So I would presume, your biggest bugbear is your ethnic enclave that you currently live in.
Let me share some more info on this :

- my son and daughter’s second language is always been mandarin, they have cleared all YCT levels and can speak, read and write mandarin. There are 7 certificates among them which they got from school or Pvt exams on their mandarin skills

- when my son started primary education, we tried for local school but it was rejected as no vacancy for foreigners, so we have to opt for International School

- daughter is in local kindergarten, will try for her in local when she comes to primary, not sure if we will get one or not

I agree that residence in east side for last 10 yrs is not seen as integration factor 😢… but that’s not true …
I don’t think staying in east is an issue. I would think staying in east and in Indian enclaves all through out might be. There are lot of condos which have more diverse mix of occupants .

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ind28 » Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:47 pm

Ignorant1 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:27 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:33 am
the observer wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:18 am
Let’s face it, even with the PR, there’s little chance of you putting your kids in a neighborhood school, especially since they’re now in uwc or tanglin trust or the likes. Why settle for tanjong something primary instead of a coveted private school?

So there’s absolutely negligible integration, now and in the future. I think buying the hse would serve the commitment angle, but not on integrating.

And they’re reserving PRs for citizenship material folks, especially with the fertility rate turning more dire. So I would presume, your biggest bugbear is your ethnic enclave that you currently live in.
Let me share some more info on this :

- my son and daughter’s second language is always been mandarin, they have cleared all YCT levels and can speak, read and write mandarin. There are 7 certificates among them which they got from school or Pvt exams on their mandarin skills

- when my son started primary education, we tried for local school but it was rejected as no vacancy for foreigners, so we have to opt for International School

- daughter is in local kindergarten, will try for her in local when she comes to primary, not sure if we will get one or not

I agree that residence in east side for last 10 yrs is not seen as integration factor 😢… but that’s not true …
I don’t think staying in east is an issue. I would think staying in east and in Indian enclaves all through out might be. There are lot of condos which have more diverse mix of occupants .
Yes I also think the same … mine is more towards paya lebar and condo is quite diverse

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ignorant1 » Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:50 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:47 pm
Ignorant1 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:27 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 10:33 am


Let me share some more info on this :

- my son and daughter’s second language is always been mandarin, they have cleared all YCT levels and can speak, read and write mandarin. There are 7 certificates among them which they got from school or Pvt exams on their mandarin skills

- when my son started primary education, we tried for local school but it was rejected as no vacancy for foreigners, so we have to opt for International School

- daughter is in local kindergarten, will try for her in local when she comes to primary, not sure if we will get one or not

I agree that residence in east side for last 10 yrs is not seen as integration factor 😢… but that’s not true …
I don’t think staying in east is an issue. I would think staying in east and in Indian enclaves all through out might be. There are lot of condos which have more diverse mix of occupants .
Yes I also think the same … mine is more towards paya lebar and condo is quite diverse
Then i dont think you have issue on that front too . gotta keep trying every now and then.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 9:29 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Tue, 29 Jun 2021 1:31 am
If one of you makes 2/3's of the income of the family unit, they may also see it as a flight risk at the first offer of say 30~50K/pa We don't really have enough detail to give you anything more detailed.
Hello,

I've read this many many times here.
A person with high income can leave for a better place. That's why, when it comes to PR, earning too much is as bad as earning too little.

I wonder why one with 600k of stable income per year would leave the country? If things are going so great, why look for a better place?

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:03 pm

greed.
Life isn't about avoiding the bruises. It's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it!

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by sp786 » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:53 pm

Thanks for posting your details because it confirms my hypothesis that salary is not a criteria as many think of it to be. I think comes down to ethnicity and certain other dynamics based on some data privy to them that is used by them to pre-plan how many of each and what type of industry or salary bracket to choose from. This is justified by 2 things:
1) I know someone of Indian Origin who works in the tech department at a biiiig MNC bank drawing as much salary as yours all by himself but still couldn't get PR has been in SG for 12+ years.
2) I have a senior colleague who is a Latin American in his mid 40s with a Japanese wife and 2 kids and they moved from our Japanese office to SG and got PR in first attempt. Their combined income too was not as high as yours but probably would be 60-70% of yours.
.
The Indian profiles who are getting PR approved are mid level profiles earning 100-150K per year, mid-30s and I know 3-4 such profiles in finance / retail payments & data science areas who got their PR approved late last year. I also recently came across a younger Indian girl, who got her PR recently, around 26 years old who works in automation testing in a Singaporean Insurance company and her salary would be around 6K per month.

Looking at all this ICA must be focusing on profiles suited to that year's demography or some target given to them which is privy to them. Do not engage any agencies even if you want to because the moment they know your high pay they would say they have an ex-ICA officer and loot you for some lame cover letters, recommendation letters, etc.

Aside to the above, your profile & Indian ethnicity has great acceptance in Canada to which you can try.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ind28 » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:28 pm

sp786 wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:53 pm
Thanks for posting your details because it confirms my hypothesis that salary is not a criteria as many think of it to be. I think comes down to ethnicity and certain other dynamics based on some data privy to them that is used by them to pre-plan how many of each and what type of industry or salary bracket to choose from. This is justified by 2 things:
1) I know someone of Indian Origin who works in the tech department at a biiiig MNC bank drawing as much salary as yours all by himself but still couldn't get PR has been in SG for 12+ years.
2) I have a senior colleague who is a Latin American in his mid 40s with a Japanese wife and 2 kids and they moved from our Japanese office to SG and got PR in first attempt. Their combined income too was not as high as yours but probably would be 60-70% of yours.
.
The Indian profiles who are getting PR approved are mid level profiles earning 100-150K per year, mid-30s and I know 3-4 such profiles in finance / retail payments & data science areas who got their PR approved late last year. I also recently came across a younger Indian girl, who got her PR recently, around 26 years old who works in automation testing in a Singaporean Insurance company and her salary would be around 6K per month.

Looking at all this ICA must be focusing on profiles suited to that year's demography or some target given to them which is privy to them. Do not engage any agencies even if you want to because the moment they know your high pay they would say they have an ex-ICA officer and loot you for some lame cover letters, recommendation letters, etc.

Aside to the above, your profile & Indian ethnicity has great acceptance in Canada to which you can try.
Thx a lot for your detailed response…. Absolutely makes sense … let’s c what’s there in future …

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:00 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:03 pm
greed.
Apart from money, there are other factors that should be taken into consideration:
  • Stability of the company. Especially, in the current COVID times.
  • One's own importance at the company (knowledge of internal products, processes, etc. Will I be the first or last person to be laid off if the business has to close due to a new lockdown or something?)
  • Colleagues. If they are the nicest people on the planet, why leave?
  • Management style.
  • The company's products and/or services. I personally must be passionate about what I do.
  • Add yours here :)
So money is just one of the factors. Besides, 600k or 630k (only +5%. Is it really worth it?) per year is a lot. Really a lot. Not even possible to spend :D

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ind28 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:20 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:00 pm
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:03 pm
greed.
Apart from money, there are other factors that should be taken into consideration:
  • Stability of the company. Especially, in the current COVID times.
  • One's own importance at the company (knowledge of internal products, processes, etc. Will I be the first or last person to be laid off if the business has to close due to a new lockdown or something?)
  • Colleagues. If they are the nicest people on the planet, why leave?
  • Management style.
  • The company's products and/or services. I personally must be passionate about what I do.
  • Add yours here :)
So money is just one of the factors. Besides, 600k or 630k (only +5%. Is it really worth it?) per year is a lot. Really a lot. Not even possible to spend :D
At this age and career … money is not that important compare to 10 yrs back ….
- Kids schooling
- friends
- eco system around you

All these also matters and not easy to shift / move

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 1:56 pm

Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:20 pm
At this age and career … money is not that important compare to 10 yrs back ….
- Kids schooling
- friends
- eco system around you

All these also matters and not easy to shift / move
I'm only 30 :) No kids yet.

Best of luck with your next application. I'd be devastated if got rejected after 10 years. If you don't mind the cold weather, maybe think about Canada as someone suggested earlier in the thread.

One question, I didn't see it in the thread. Do you send most of your savings back to India? if you do, maybe ICA perceives it as your attachment to your country and a plan to go back when it's time to retire.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by smoulder » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:01 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 1:56 pm
Ind28 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 12:20 pm
At this age and career … money is not that important compare to 10 yrs back ….
- Kids schooling
- friends
- eco system around you

All these also matters and not easy to shift / move

One question, I didn't see it in the thread. Do you send most of your savings back to India? if you do, maybe ICA perceives it as your attachment to your country and a plan to go back when it's time to retire.
I wonder how they'd find out without accessing your bank account information. Without doing that, I wonder what are the other ways to deduce if someone is doing this.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by PartyLike-A-Russian » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:18 pm

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:01 pm


I wonder how they'd find out without accessing your bank account information. Without doing that, I wonder what are the other ways to deduce if someone is doing this.
Who told you they couldn't access data in your bank account? :D :D :D
OK, kidding. Sure thing, I don't know what they check.

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Re: 11 years in Singapore - PR Rejected

Post by Ind28 » Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:57 pm

PartyLike-A-Russian wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:18 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 2:01 pm


I wonder how they'd find out without accessing your bank account information. Without doing that, I wonder what are the other ways to deduce if someone is doing this.
Who told you they couldn't access data in your bank account? :D :D :D
OK, kidding. Sure thing, I don't know what they check.
As part to PR application, we give them rights on our financial information.
However .. I haven’t done any major remittances to india … 90%+ of my savings are in Singapore…
I have genuinely felt this place as home and always thought long term all these 11 years … hence the disappointment ….

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