HK or Singapore

[smoulder]

I used to work for an Aussie company that had its "global" (everything outside of ANZ) hq in HK. They started relocating back in 2014. The reasons are obvious.

Another American bank that I worked for had its Asia DR data center in HK. After I left, they ran a project to move that out to Japan, a country where they had divested the business many years ago. Again, the reasons are easy to understand.

[the observer]

Catchy headline

Biden to warn US companies of risks of operating in Hong Kong
President plans more sanctions in retaliation to Beijing’s policy in the territory and Xinjiang

https://www.ft.com/content/8ca8fbfb-10a ... 75589e7e41

[malcontent]

It’s not hard to find something to disagree with China on. Trump found plenty, Biden is finding plenty. Many countries are finding plenty… and it seems to only be getting worse. The Philippines practically bent over for China thinking it would get them somewhere - the only thing it got them is being taken advantage of, with even more attempts on their territories in the South China Sea.

[the observer]

For any company that’s insistent on setting up an outpost in asia, I can’t think of any viable alternative other than spore. Go long real estate!

[Lisafuller]

South Korea and Japan are not bad options, but unfortunately they’ve handled the COVID crisis poorly, especially in comparison to Singapore.

[smoulder]

South Korea and Japan are not bad options, but unfortunately they’ve handled the COVID crisis poorly, especially in comparison to Singapore.

Aside from covid, Singapore has the advantage of speaking English. And enough Chinese to connect with China as well.

[Lisafuller]

South Korea and Japan are not bad options, but unfortunately they’ve handled the COVID crisis poorly, especially in comparison to Singapore.

Aside from covid, Singapore has the advantage of speaking English. And enough Chinese to connect with China as well.

Very true, I was just trying to present some alternatives.

[the observer]

English isn’t commonly used in either Japan or Korea. And what abt corp tax rates.

[the observer]

Also, those north east countries are geographically too close to tw. It could all flare up, next

[malcontent]

English is not always a major concern, it depends on the operations. My company has manufacturing in China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia and India. Singapore is mostly marketing & distribution, plus some specialists and back office functions. For tax purposes, we treat Singapore as our Asia Pacific HQ and have our highest ranking officers in the region located here - - that is more about taxes than it is about convenience and quality of life.

[the observer]

English is not always a major concern, it depends on the operations. My company has manufacturing in China, Japan, Korea, Thailand, Indonesia and India. Singapore is mostly marketing & distribution, plus some specialists and back office functions. For tax purposes, we treat Singapore as our Asia Pacific HQ and have our highest ranking officers in the region located here - - that is more about taxes than it is about convenience and quality of life.

Yeh, was referring to regional office in asia, not manufacturing outposts. In any case, good chance we see house prices continuing to rise due to continued migration. ie relocation of either Hk operations to sg, or companies choosing sg instead of hk. Unless you can think of another viable city, which I can’t think of at the mom.

Bad part of it, it’ll price out the fresh grads like HK, re home ownership affordability

[malcontent]

I know a lot of people from HK in SG and they always say the biggest positive for them is that SG has more space - specifically home size can be at least a bit larger for the same $.

I fully agree on the trajectory of home prices here, prices that are artificially suppressed will eventually reach their equilibrium.

[madasahattersley]

I think Singapore residential property prices are ridiculously inflated already based on;

1) Extremely poor rental returns already (a $2m condo will get approx $40k in gross rent PA - even worse for landed properties)
2) A huge number of empty units with landlords unwilling to negotiate
3) The demographic paying most of the rent on private condos and houses (i.e. affluent foreigners) fleeing Singapore at an unprecedented rate

We've just had to sign a new lease which is annoying because I think it's clear that the market is going to crash very hard in the next year.

[Wd40]

I think Singapore residential property prices are ridiculously inflated already based on;

1) Extremely poor rental returns already (a $2m condo will get approx $40k in gross rent PA - even worse for landed properties)
2) A huge number of empty units with landlords unwilling to negotiate
3) The demographic paying most of the rent on private condos and houses (i.e. affluent foreigners) fleeing Singapore at an unprecedented rate

We've just had to sign a new lease which is annoying because I think it's clear that the market is going to crash very hard in the next year.

That is quite a bold prediction. I am not sure if you have been long enough in Singapore. Rents are very sticky on the downside but rise rapidly on the upside. What we have now is very similar to 2009, economy coming out of crisis and rents starting to rise rapidly. They didnt stop rising until 2014 and after that they starting falling only ever so slightly.

So to me the best case scenario for a tenant right now is to just lock in to a 2yr lease and then see 2 years from now, if rents have stabilized you are lucky.

[smoulder]

^ property prices have already fallen because of the cooling measures. Hard to tumble from here. That would take some doing.