People queuing overnight for sinovac?

[tiktok]

Talking about infection, not symptoms.

Coronaviruses infect by binding to receptors on host cells via their "spike protein". The spike protein in COVID binds very well to the ACE2 receptor which is found in human respitory cells. It doesn't bind well to any receptors in bat cells.

[malcontent]

BBCDoc told me (and is qualified to say) that he thinks it is most likely an accidental bat to human transmission.

If this is true, one would expect COVID to be infectious to bats, but it's not.

I’m no scientist or expert, but the origin seems to be horseshoe bats, and after cross-species mutations (perhaps pangolin, and/or others before the jump to humans), one would assume the COVID virus has adapted itself beyond the bat (and whatever receptors the bat has that makes it vulnerable to other coronaviruses). In other words, COVID may have had to “give up” it’s infectiousness with bats to “gain” infectiousness with other species.

[Lisafuller]

For me it’s simple. Was it a seafood market that doesn’t sell bats, or the lab down the road that has the actual bat coronavirus, works with that virus to try and prevent a pandemic and was called out 2 years prior for not having sufficient controls in place? Also, why Wuhan? This can’t be the only market getting supplies from Southern China (which is where this bat originates). There just seems to be a lot of circumstantial clues that point to the lab.

Well when you put it that way, the lab seems like the obvious answer.

[Lisafuller]

BBCDoc told me (and is qualified to say) that he thinks it is most likely an accidental bat to human transmission.

If this is true, one would expect COVID to be infectious to bats, but it's not.

I don't know what you mean by "infectious" but there are plenty of diseases that are asymptomatic in once host, deadly in another.

Very true.

[BBCDoc]

Damn, I’ve been missing out on a really fun conversation here….

This is an interesting top tier paper from 2015:


Check the list of research sites contributing to this (Wuhan)


Inside is a theory on different models for viruses jumping from bats to humans:


Viruses may use different receptors in other animals - the resultant infections may not cause disease.

Example - Influenza is actually a gastric virus for ducks, but a respiratory virus for humans. No surprise if C19 is similar…

The monkey version of HIV (SIV) does not cause disease in host monkeys.

Viruses jump into the wrong host and cause havoc….happens a few times in history, and likely will happen again (hopefully not our lifetime)


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[malcontent]

So BBCDoc, what is your take…

Did virus came from the seafood market or the lab down the street?

Was the virus manipulated to infect humans or did it jump from bats via one or two other animas before mutating into the human-to-human version we have now?

[BBCDoc]

The cynical me would love to think it was a deliberate release. China benefited in such a fantastic way in global positioning (not to mention sales of so many Chinese products), with a massive weakening/disruption of old world systems.

However, given that they have done research for so many years, they should have understood the high mutational instability of the virus - so I would like to also think they would not have done this deliberately.

Thus, it is likely the case that this could have been a breakthrough infection naturally, in a freak coincidence with ongoing research.

Worst case, could well have been a disgruntled employee with no regard for global consequences….

Probably will be a case like MH370 - we’ll never know.


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[MOCHS]

If this is true, one would expect COVID to be infectious to bats, but it's not.

Does Nipah virus not ring a bell? MERS? Marburg virus? Hendra virus?

Bats have been well known to carry viruses that doesn’t affect them. That makes them awesome (that immune system!) and scary (they are carriers) at the same time.

[tiktok]

Bats can't even be carriers of COVID. They are carriers of something close, which gained it's ability to infect humans either (a) by mutations in another species (not yet found), or (b) it was added in a lab where they were trying to do exactly this, and where safety controls were known to be poor.

[MOCHS]

They are long known to carry coronaviruses even if it’s not COVID itself.

Just saying bats can carry a ton of stuff without showing symptoms. They are fascinating that way.

[malcontent]

As I understand it, bats are typically the main source of coronaviruses, but it’s only after a species jump or two, the virus mutates, and that is what allows it to infect other living beings with different receptors. Once it’s mutated, bats may no longer be susceptible.

[x9200]

I have read one nice paper, unfortunately forgot where, with short review on different zoonotic diseases that manifested themselves over last few decades. Such things seem happen relatively frequently and some of them look pretty scary, like for example, the Hendra virus.

[BBCDoc]

Well, there’s a mosquito borne bacteria that causes necrosis in Australia, some people in Melbourne lost some limbs earlier this year I think…

No end of stuff trying to kill you in Oz…


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[malcontent]

We have a saying in the US… if one thing doesn’t kill you, the other thing will.