Singapore Expats Forum
 

By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Do you have a question about National Service (NS) in Singapore? Discuss it here.
Post Reply
tuskarrock
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:59 am

By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by tuskarrock » Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:11 am

Hi all,

Apologies if this has been discussed previously - i couldn't find the answer on threads.

My family are all PR and our male son is turning 10 shortly. The family plans are to stay in Singapore and for the kids to complete NS. Due to family illness at home, this may change things and I wanted to have more information should we have to leave Singapore in the coming years.

By what age would we have to renounce PR to avoid NS penalties (both defaulter and financial)- is it 13 or 16.5 years?

Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
TR

Lisafuller
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 11:45 pm

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 23 Mar 2021 12:59 am

This was taken from a previous post on this forum. I’ve linked it if you wish to read more.

https://www.singaporeexpats.com/resourc ... -to-ns.htm

The only way a male Singaporean citizen can legally avoid NS is if he
1) has another citizenship before the age of 11
2) informs Mindef of his intention to renounce Singaporean citizenship and applies for the necessary exit permits from the age of 13 and obtains deferment at 18
3) does not use or benefit from Singaporean citizenship after 11
4) finally renounces Singaporean citizenship at 21

1) This is a very important point that is often missed. The child must be a citizen of another country before 11, whether by being born there, or having a parent from that country, or by naturalization before 11. Permanent residence/ green card etc. is not citizenship.

Simply by being a Singaporean citizen with no other citizenship obliges the Singapore Government to provide you protection in a foreign country and to receive you if that country no longer wants you around. Whether you actually seek assistance is a different matter. You are in that country legally only at the request of the Singapore Government to that country’s government, and that is a huge “socio-economic benefit”. Also, a passport is a legal document, not citizenship per se. So even if your passport has expired you’re still a citizen. Not having a valid passport is not a way of saying that you have not benefited. The only way of doing so is to have another citizenship, meaning that you have someone else’s legal protection under international law.

So if the child at 11 has only Singaporean citizenship, there is no legal way out, regardless of any permanent resident status or later acquisition of another citizenship.

User avatar
PNGMK
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7977
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 9:06 pm
Location: Sinkapore

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 23 Mar 2021 1:01 pm

Lisa has given a good answer. You do have some options though.

1. IF the boy doesn't have a second citizenship you can still leave provided you keep ICA up to date with the address. At some point if overseas you'll need to post a bond or apply for deferments to keep him legally out and not liable for detention on return. At some point he will be asked to do NS and I encourage you to consider this. It is not the end of the world. If he doesn't do NS then he becomes a deserter and potential issues arise should he return to Singapore or even Singapore airspace.

2. IF the boy a second citizenship then get him out ASAP into the other country and begin the process. Don't wait until 11 and 1 day.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

therat
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 757
Joined: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 2:23 pm

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by therat » Tue, 23 Mar 2021 1:53 pm

tuskarrock wrote:
Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:11 am
Hi all,

Apologies if this has been discussed previously - i couldn't find the answer on threads.

My family are all PR and our male son is turning 10 shortly. The family plans are to stay in Singapore and for the kids to complete NS. Due to family illness at home, this may change things and I wanted to have more information should we have to leave Singapore in the coming years.

By what age would we have to renounce PR to avoid NS penalties (both defaulter and financial)- is it 13 or 16.5 years?

Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
TR


but but....

OT boy is PR..

Lisafuller
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 468
Joined: Sat, 07 Nov 2020 11:45 pm

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by Lisafuller » Wed, 24 Mar 2021 1:17 am

therat wrote:
Tue, 23 Mar 2021 1:53 pm
tuskarrock wrote:
Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:11 am
Hi all,

Apologies if this has been discussed previously - i couldn't find the answer on threads.

My family are all PR and our male son is turning 10 shortly. The family plans are to stay in Singapore and for the kids to complete NS. Due to family illness at home, this may change things and I wanted to have more information should we have to leave Singapore in the coming years.

By what age would we have to renounce PR to avoid NS penalties (both defaulter and financial)- is it 13 or 16.5 years?

Any feedback/advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
TR


but but....

OT boy is PR..
Wouldn’t he still need to follow the same procedure? Just renounce PR since he already holds other citizenship.

User avatar
x9200
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9628
Joined: Mon, 07 Sep 2009 4:06 pm
Location: Singapore

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by x9200 » Wed, 24 Mar 2021 6:09 am

tuskarrock wrote:
Mon, 22 Mar 2021 11:11 am
Hi all,

Apologies if this has been discussed previously - i couldn't find the answer on threads.

My family are all PR and our male son is turning 10 shortly. The family plans are to stay in Singapore and for the kids to complete NS. Due to family illness at home, this may change things and I wanted to have more information should we have to leave Singapore in the coming years.

By what age would we have to renounce PR to avoid NS penalties (both defaulter and financial)- is it 13 or 16.5 years?
As far as I could tell based on this board discussions he has to have his PR renounced before the age 16.5. Having said that, if he had it older than 13 but still before 16.5 he will be free to enter Singapore (and not get arrested etc.) but will stand near zero chance of getting any work pass not to mention PR.

bro75
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 540
Joined: Sun, 02 Sep 2012 8:06 am
Location: Singapore

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by bro75 » Wed, 24 Mar 2021 8:30 am

https://www.ica.gov.sg/reside/PR/apply

From ICA's website (near the bottom of the page)

Renouncing or losing one’s PR status without serving or completing full-time NS would have an adverse impact on any immediate or future applications to work, study or live in Singapore, or for Singapore citizenship or PR status. Renouncing or losing one’s PR status without serving or completing full-time NS may also adversely affect any immediate or future applications for renewal of Re-entry Permits made by one’s family members or sponsors.

tuskarrock
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon, 22 Mar 2021 10:59 am

Re: By what age must Kids PR be renounced to avoid NS penalty

Post by tuskarrock » Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:40 pm

Hi all,

Many thanks for the feedback! Just to confirm, my son is a PR and holds citizenship of another country

Thanks x9200 - your post correlates with my own understanding as well...anyone else agree?

Being completely transparent, we do want to stay in Singapore long term and kid complete NS. There is no other country we would rather be right now and from expats whose kids have done NS, it's been positive feedback...

The concern in this new world of no longer being able to jump on a plane and get home easily in an emergency is something that worries us given illness and the unknown at home.

I would like the peace of mind knowing what are the consequences of Plan B should it come to that.

Thanks again,
TR.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “National Service”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests