trying to relocate from UK

[margaret44]

Hi

I am really hoping for some advice please! myself, husband and young child are looking to move to sg from London. We are British, fed up of the weather(!) and have always wanted to live in Singapore (for many reasons).

However, we are being refused any advice or even acknowledgement from the recruiters we have reached out to. I understand that its increasingly difficult to relocate to SG due to the MOM wanting to reduce EP's, AND now the pandemic.....so we were realistic from the start that this quest might not happen. But to not even have any feedback or advice from recruiters is very disheartening. All i would like to know is....what are our chances of my husband finding a job that will grant an EP/consider relocating us. I am not expecting a relocation package, or any help financially. But an interview would be nice at least!

I do not work, but my husband is head trader at a hedge fund in london. he has worked at the firm for 15 years and counting. he started as a graduate and worked his way to the top. he has a good uni degree and so much experience in hedge funds. his current annual salary is £290k (510kSGD) so i think he qualifies for the minimum salary bracket the MOM have stated for his industry. Since opening himself up to recruiters on linked in etc (only two weeks ago) he's been head hunted for multiple roles in london, yet nothing in SG. He is willing to take a demotion to get on the ground out there.

Can anyone advise whether we are wasting our time even considering a move to SG? Its my dream to live out there and i dont want to give up just yet.

Many thanks

[PNGMK]

Can he do an internal or inter-co transfer? Do you have the wherewithal (I love that British word) to sponsor yourselves as investor immigrants (2.5MM needed at least and some other skills: https://www.guidemesingapore.com/busine ... -investors)?

I know one trader who moved here but did it via a co transfer and actually he moved out of trading into a different dept to get here.

The other thing is to look at who actually operates trading desks here (it is becoming a crowded field) and approach their HQ if in London or Europe for a transfer as the decision may come from there and not locally in Singapore.

[margaret44]

thank you for your kind reply. having done more research on the matter it seems we just wont be welcome in Singapore, sadly. its a shame as i was even considering applying for full time voluntary charity work or something, to entice the MOM to grant us EP's but i think even that is unrealistic. I think we will probably focus on moving somewhere we have a better chance of being approved a visa. Thank you.

[PNGMK]

thank you for your kind reply. having done more research on the matter it seems we just wont be welcome in Singapore, sadly. its a shame as i was even considering applying for full time voluntary charity work or something, to entice the MOM to grant us EP's but i think even that is unrealistic. I think we will probably focus on moving somewhere we have a better chance of being approved a visa. Thank you.

In current circumstances maybe not. As a suggestion try getting a transfer to HK first.

[Myasis Dragon]

In my view your chances are not very good at all. In my historical experience, very few people ever manage to get employment passes by coming to Singapore to find a job... 5 percent of employment passes granted is my estimate. Most go to MNC's bringing in employees from other offices.

Now, maybe being a trader is an exception but from your response from Singapore, I'd say not. Why hire a foreigner when there is plenty of local talent available. There are lots of banks and investment firms here, all running trading desks. Plenty of places to poach new talent when required.

This post I wrote explains why you're going to have such a difficult time. viewtopic.php?t=139644#p841797

As PNGMK noted, an internal transfer is the way to get here... it's how most people do it. Or, you could try to setup your own business in Singapore... trading... then apply for an employment pass. I have absolutely no idea if the gahmen would consider a private trading firm as worthy of an employment pass.

[PNGMK]

^ chipping in again as MD reminded me that I do actually have a friend from church here (I have a few) who runs a fund. He is Malaysian Chinese and is on an EP (and has been for decades even though married to a SC - some MY Chinese are surprisingly patriotic). He is fairly well off I think (inherited a soya sauce factory in Malaysia). He has run a fund here for over 20 years quite successfully but in the last few years the gahmen has basically rendered his business model moot- they demanded he hire a compliance officer, privacy officer, D&I officer, and some others - he said the costs would be ~$1MM p.a. for those alone and is now winding up the fund and folks are withdrawing as market conditions permit. Take it as you will. (I think the fund is just one of his ventures so I am sure he has other forms of businesss that will provide enough revenue for his EP).

[Wong_Jnr]

thank you for your kind reply. having done more research on the matter it seems we just wont be welcome in Singapore, sadly. its a shame as i was even considering applying for full time voluntary charity work or something, to entice the MOM to grant us EP's but i think even that is unrealistic. I think we will probably focus on moving somewhere we have a better chance of being approved a visa. Thank you.

I think you're mistaken here. It's not the granting of the EP that's the problem as getting one is pretty straightforward once you have a job lined up. It's getting the job that's the issue.

To make the move to Singapore you need to engineer your path be it via changing job, company or even role. It's not impossible as many have done it such as myself. You need to view it as more of a longer term plan as you are required to maneuver yourself career wise so that more opportunities open up.

I wouldn't give up just yet. It took me several years from the idea to actually getting the move.

[PNGMK]

thank you for your kind reply. having done more research on the matter it seems we just wont be welcome in Singapore, sadly. its a shame as i was even considering applying for full time voluntary charity work or something, to entice the MOM to grant us EP's but i think even that is unrealistic. I think we will probably focus on moving somewhere we have a better chance of being approved a visa. Thank you.

I think you're mistaken here. It's not the granting of the EP that's the problem as getting one is pretty straightforward once you have a job lined up. It's getting the job that's the issue.

To make the move to Singapore you need to engineer your path be it via changing job, company or even role. It's not impossible as many have done it such as myself. You need to view it as more of a longer term plan as you are required to maneuver yourself career wise so that more opportunities open up.

I wouldn't give up just yet. It took me several years from the idea to actually getting the move.

Agreed. It took me awhile and happy chance of luck. I came through SE Asia in 1989 and decided I wanted to be here and it wasn't until 1992 that I landed a job onshore (I did work offshore VN for awhile first).

[Elhuncho]

Hey there guys I’m a 24 year old British male and trying to find out how I can get a job as a paramedic in Singapore, can someone help me please, a lot of websites only allow you to apply if you already a citizen in Singapore or live there .

Any information will be appreciated.
Kind regards

[Myasis Dragon]

Hey there guys I’m a 24 year old British male and trying to find out how I can get a job as a paramedic in Singapore, can someone help me please, a lot of websites only allow you to apply if you already a citizen in Singapore or live there .

Any information will be appreciated.
Kind regards

Short answer: You can't. Singapore government SCDF positions are reserved for Singaporeans.

Slightly longer answer: Private firms will be under substantial pressure to hire local. There is nothing you can provide that a local Singaporean cannot provide.

The government is very sensitive to populist notions of foreigners taking jobs, and paramedic is one of those that will be reserved for locals.

[x9200]

Hey there guys I’m a 24 year old British male and trying to find out how I can get a job as a paramedic in Singapore, can someone help me please, a lot of websites only allow you to apply if you already a citizen in Singapore or live there .

Any information will be appreciated.
Kind regards

You posted the above in 4 other completely nonsense location. Please don't do this again.
Moderator

[margaret44]

thank you for your kind reply. having done more research on the matter it seems we just wont be welcome in Singapore, sadly. its a shame as i was even considering applying for full time voluntary charity work or something, to entice the MOM to grant us EP's but i think even that is unrealistic. I think we will probably focus on moving somewhere we have a better chance of being approved a visa. Thank you.

I think you're mistaken here. It's not the granting of the EP that's the problem as getting one is pretty straightforward once you have a job lined up. It's getting the job that's the issue.

To make the move to Singapore you need to engineer your path be it via changing job, company or even role. It's not impossible as many have done it such as myself. You need to view it as more of a longer term plan as you are required to maneuver yourself career wise so that more opportunities open up.

I wouldn't give up just yet. It took me several years from the idea to actually getting the move.

yes - you are absolutely right - its getting a job thats the hard bit! i sort of jumped the gun a bit with the EP question and didnt explain myself very well (lockdown brain .....haha)

my husband has been asking his industry contacts in london if they know anyone in SG and he has been given a couple of people to speak to on the ground over there. i think this is our best way in, if any. rather than bothering recruiters etc.

One more question on the EP issue to help me better understand our chances - when a company hires a new foreign employee out there, does that company have to apply for a new EP for that person, regardless of whether or not they already have one (attached to their previous job)? or is a two year EP valid for two years regardless of how many times they move jobs. ie is the EP attached to the person, rather than the job? Basically, im trying to work out whether my husband has just as much of a chance as another foreigner out there at getting a job..... (obviously we dont expect an expat relocation package.... i know these days are far behind us).

thanks again All!

[sundaymorningstaple]

EPs are directly tied to the hiring employer. Change employer, previous EP must be canceled and a new EP application filed by the new Employer. This is often fraught with problems as the prospective employee will not have clue if the prospective new employer has issues themselves with the MOM. EP approval is a two part process. The employee has to meet certain criteria and so does the Employer.

Additionally, as can be seen on several threads here, renewals or new applications may also be subject to new and constantly changing criteria. This could mean on renewal or a new application either the employee or the employer may or may no longer qualify if the criteria has changed.

[margaret44]

Hi all - still on the mission to move to sg….
One question if I may….it has come to my attention that my husbands eligible for a PEP visa. Should he bother applying? Do you think it’ll make him more of an attractive applicant if he already has a visa in place, despite still being based in the U.K. currently? He’s only found about 3 jobs to apply to in 6 months, and most specify they’re looking for a Singapore based applicant or ask the question “do You have the right to live in sg” etc. So I assume they just bin his application immediately (he’s not had any responses yet)
The minimum salary requirement isn’t an issue for us as he wouldn’t accept a job paying less than 144k a year anyway..
On another note. Do you think it would be madness to get the PEP visa and move out there without a job? He’s never been unemployed so would definitely be risky however perhaps after 15 years of working flat out he is due a bit of a break. We have established a few contacts out there who are doing some ground work for us so maybe it would be faster move without a job and job hunt over there (hoping he secures one in 6 months)
Decisions! It’s so hard. Help. Thanks.

[madasahattersley]

Hi all - still on the mission to move to sg….
One question if I may….it has come to my attention that my husbands eligible for a PEP visa. Should he bother applying? Do you think it’ll make him more of an attractive applicant if he already has a visa in place, despite still being based in the U.K. currently? He’s only found about 3 jobs to apply to in 6 months, and most specify they’re looking for a Singapore based applicant or ask the question “do You have the right to live in sg” etc. So I assume they just bin his application immediately (he’s not had any responses yet)
The minimum salary requirement isn’t an issue for us as he wouldn’t accept a job paying less than 144k a year anyway..
On another note. Do you think it would be madness to get the PEP visa and move out there without a job? He’s never been unemployed so would definitely be risky however perhaps after 15 years of working flat out he is due a bit of a break. We have established a few contacts out there who are doing some ground work for us so maybe it would be faster move without a job and job hunt over there (hoping he secures one in 6 months)
Decisions! It’s so hard. Help. Thanks.

Hi Margaret,

I would highly advise against the PEP route without a job. I have been in Singapore for 11 months (I'm on a DP) and being unemployed really is a miserable existence, for a few reasons;

1) Job hunting is not an equal playing field at the moment for foreigners. You are right that his applications will have been binned if he says he requires sponsorship, and if he has only found 3 suitable jobs it will take years before the right one turns up. I have applied for several hundred over the past year and all apart from about 5 have triggered either a generic auto-rejection email, or no response at all. Recruiters will have no interest in helping him and will generally not even have the decency to reply to your emails. Perhaps COVID was a catalyst for this, but I can't see it changing.

2) It depends on your personal values, but being here for under a year has taught me that as a fully grown adult, I don't like being told to follow (mostly arbitrary) rules all the time, and I mean ALL the time. I like to engage my common sense and live freely, as long as it isn't affecting anybody else. This is deeply incompatible with the culture here.

3) Singapore is not a particularly interesting country in itself, and after probably 3 months we had already done everything at least twice. Most of the free outdoor attractions here are utterly sterile and if you are even slightly adventurous will not be sufficiently stimulating. There are a couple of minor exceptions, but most of the cool paths through jungle etc are closed off for safety reasons (see point 2 above).

4) Your husband's salary is exceptionally high in the UK, and taking a pay cut to S$12k per month will lead to either an enormous lifestyle downgrade or a total reduction in savings.

My advice - look at moving to another country. We will be moving after the minimum contract my wife signed up to, either back home or to a slightly more relaxed country (Thailand, Vietnam). Expats are leaving Singapore at a quite incredible rate currently and very few of my British friends plan to stay here long term. Sorry I couldn't say anything more encouraging.