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PR to SC for partial family

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PR to SC for partial family

Post by malcontent » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 12:50 am

My two sisters-in-law asked me to post their conundrum.

Sis-in-law #1 -

She is an Indonesian Chinese PR married to Malaysian Chinese PR and they have 3 pre-NS boys, all PR with Malaysian passports. They are both working, in their early 50’s and have been PR for decades. Husband doesn’t want to become SC, but she wants to convert, along with the kids. If it matters, the husband got PR on his own. Without him joining the application, how much will it hurt their chances?

Sis-in-law #2 -

She is an Indonesian Chinese PR married to an Indonesian Chinese decade long EP holder and they have 2 boys on DP, both with US passports. They are both working, in their mid-40’s, she has been a PR for decades. Husband wants to become PR, but not with the kids. Wife wants to convert to SC but only her alone. Should she apply for SC first or should the husband apply for PR first? Do their PR/SC applications stand a good chance, if not including the kids?

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 2:14 am

Sis-in-law #1 - reasonable chance. At least 50:50 and worth a shot as long as the kids are on the same application. Without the children, wouldn't bet a wooden nickel on it.

Sis-in-law #2 - if the kids father is the husband, he's got no chance of PR. Wife no chance of SGC without the kids.

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by bcheng74 » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 7:51 am

malcontent wrote:My two sisters-in-law asked me to post their conundrum.

Sis-in-law #1 -

She is an Indonesian Chinese PR married to Malaysian Chinese PR and they have 3 pre-NS boys, all PR with Malaysian passports. They are both working, in their early 50’s and have been PR for decades. Husband doesn’t want to become SC, but she wants to convert, along with the kids. If it matters, the husband got PR on his own. Without him joining the application, how much will it hurt their chances?

Sis-in-law #2 -

She is an Indonesian Chinese PR married to an Indonesian Chinese decade long EP holder and they have 2 boys on DP, both with US passports. They are both working, in their mid-40’s, she has been a PR for decades. Husband wants to become PR, but not with the kids. Wife wants to convert to SC but only her alone. Should she apply for SC first or should the husband apply for PR first? Do their PR/SC applications stand a good chance, if not including the kids?
Case #2 has 0 chance as long as the application excludes sons.


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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by malcontent » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 8:50 am

I am surprised the husband in case#2 has zero chance at PR, given the wife already has it... I was thinking he would at least have a better shot than the wife getting SC on her own.

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by bcheng74 » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 8:53 am

malcontent wrote:I am surprised the husband in case#2 has zero chance at PR, given the wife already has it... I was thinking he would at least have a better shot than the wife getting SC on her own.
The message given to ICA is.... “I am going to take the benefits of being PR, but our sons are not going to serve NS...”

Any PR application that excludes son, as I understand, carries 0 chance of success.


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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by malcontent » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 9:12 am

What if his employer no longer supports his EP, can he keep working on LTVP+ under his wife?

He is has a masters degree from the US and engineering job that pays well at a major MNC, but the company is struggling at the moment.

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by MOCHS » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:23 am

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 9:12 am
What if his employer no longer supports his EP, can he keep working on LTVP+ under his wife?
In theory, yes as long as he has a PLOC after he gets the LTVP+. It’s emailed to him a day after he gets the physical card. Do note there are some restricted occupations.

In reality, many employers are ignorant that they can hire LTVP holders who have a PLOC. It will take convincing and educating the HR by linking them to the correct pages on the MOM website. My husband has LTVP and PLOC and he had to educate his current employer about it and that’s how he got the job.

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by bcheng74 » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:29 am

bcheng74 wrote:
malcontent wrote:I am surprised the husband in case#2 has zero chance at PR, given the wife already has it... I was thinking he would at least have a better shot than the wife getting SC on her own.
The message given to ICA is.... “I am going to take the benefits of being PR, but our sons are not going to serve NS...”

Any PR application that excludes son, as I understand, carries 0 chance of success.


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And as I understand, once a PR application has excluded son(s), any further PR application will be severely impacted even if it includes back the son. I heard about this from a real life example of a friend who came from the second most populous country in the world... he/she has been rejected multiple times since the first application excluded his/her son.


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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by malcontent » Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:55 pm

bcheng74 wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 8:53 am
The message given to ICA is.... “I am going to take the benefits of being PR, but our sons are not going to serve NS...”
Not all those who apply for PR are here to sink roots. For many, PR is viewed as a longer-term EP, but they don’t intend to stay long enough to to see their kids do NS.

This is how it was decades back anyway. Have things changed so much? Must every PR be a stayer and not a quitter? Must every PR be a potential SC?

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 12 Mar 2021 3:29 am

Yes, in ICA's mind. That why it's called Permanent Residents and not Temporary Residence. Temporary residence are Dependents Passes and Work Passes. It was like that when I came here in 1982 as well.

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 12 Mar 2021 10:18 am

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:55 pm
bcheng74 wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 8:53 am
The message given to ICA is.... “I am going to take the benefits of being PR, but our sons are not going to serve NS...”
Not all those who apply for PR are here to sink roots. For many, PR is viewed as a longer-term EP, but they don’t intend to stay long enough to to see their kids do NS.

This is how it was decades back anyway. Have things changed so much? Must every PR be a stayer and not a quitter? Must every PR be a potential SC?
Yes - that is the intent and is openly stated in at least one of the statistics papers published yearly that I read.

Not all of us do (and maybe why as Caucasian Westerners approval rate is falling in part as they are empirically to me the largest group of quitters.).

Also rumours are that Indonesian Chinese are not in the front of the Chinese Queue but back behind the MY, HK, ROC and just in front of the PRC Chinese.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by david85 » Fri, 12 Mar 2021 12:05 pm

bcheng74 wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:29 am
bcheng74 wrote:
malcontent wrote:I am surprised the husband in case#2 has zero chance at PR, given the wife already has it... I was thinking he would at least have a better shot than the wife getting SC on her own.
The message given to ICA is.... “I am going to take the benefits of being PR, but our sons are not going to serve NS...”

Any PR application that excludes son, as I understand, carries 0 chance of success.


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And as I understand, once a PR application has excluded son(s), any further PR application will be severely impacted even if it includes back the son. I heard about this from a real life example of a friend who came from the second most populous country in the world... he/she has been rejected multiple times since the first application excluded his/her son.


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how do you know if this is the real reason or you just derived this rationale based on his case alone?

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by bcheng74 » Fri, 12 Mar 2021 12:08 pm

david85 wrote:
bcheng74 wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:29 am
bcheng74 wrote: The message given to ICA is.... “I am going to take the benefits of being PR, but our sons are not going to serve NS...”

Any PR application that excludes son, as I understand, carries 0 chance of success.


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And as I understand, once a PR application has excluded son(s), any further PR application will be severely impacted even if it includes back the son. I heard about this from a real life example of a friend who came from the second most populous country in the world... he/she has been rejected multiple times since the first application excluded his/her son.


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how do you know if this is the real reason or you just derived this rationale based on his case alone?
ICA will never tell the real reason for rejection. All comments shared here is based on our own observations.


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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by malcontent » Fri, 12 Mar 2021 2:23 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Fri, 12 Mar 2021 10:18 am
Also rumours are that Indonesian Chinese are not in the front of the Chinese Queue but back behind the MY, HK, ROC and just in front of the PRC Chinese.
Any thoughts as to why? Is it because most Indonesian Chinese typically have a limited command of the Chinese language compared to Chinese from MY/HK/TW? I would think language is unlikely factor since there are many English educated Chinese Singaporeans who aren’t that fluent either. Maybe they are simply considered culturally less Chinese? But that wouldn’t explain why they are preferred over PRC. Maybe they are simply using actual statistics on the odds of successful integration and settling in Singapore permanently?

I also noticed the type of PRC Chinese they have let in seems to have evolved over the past 10 years, it’s almost like they are profiling their personality to select ones that integrate better - in the earlier waves, it seemed like there were many here that stuck out like a sore thumb and were clearly less able to integrate.

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Re: PR to SC for partial family

Post by MOCHS » Fri, 12 Mar 2021 5:33 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 11 Mar 2021 10:55 pm
Not all those who apply for PR are here to sink roots. For many, PR is viewed as a longer-term EP, but they don’t intend to stay long enough to to see their kids do NS.
And you wonder why there is discourse towards foreigners. Someone comes here just to take advantage of the benefits in the system and just kthxbye at the end. This is denying other people who genuinely want to stay here forever.

It’s called permanent residency for a reason. You have intentions to be here permanently.

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