PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
Post Reply
SGIndian
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 8:45 am

PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by SGIndian » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 9:18 am

Hi,
I have been following this forum for many years and thought of sharing our unsuccessful attempt to get PR.
Our profile:
Applied as family of 3, my husband is the main applicant (mid 30s), myself (early 30s), Son (3 years)

Race: Indian

Length of stay: Husband - 11 years in SG, Myself - 6 years, Son born in SG

Occupation: my husband is working as an engineering consultant in power/energy/electricity sector, I am working as a program manager (admin manager) for a semi-govt firm.

Education: Husband - Masters in Engineering from NUS, I have MBA from India, Son attending Sparkletots

Salary: Combined annual salary is around 160 K

My husband came to Singapore in 2009 for his Masters program and he stayed on here. I came here in 2014 after our marriage. This is our second PR application. First one was in 2015 and it was rejected in 3 months time. Second application was in 2020 July and it is rejected in exactly 6 months time.

We submitted two other relevant documents with our application - I have been volunteering with National Heritage Board as a Museum docent since 2015. And my husband speaks Mandarin in a reasonable way. He has HSK Level 4 certificate.

To be honest, we expected a rejection but we thought it is worth to try.

User avatar
singaporeflyer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3968
Joined: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 9:49 am
Answers: 1

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by singaporeflyer » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 9:45 am

SGIndian wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 9:18 am
Hi,
I have been following this forum for many years and thought of sharing our unsuccessful attempt to get PR.
Our profile:
Applied as family of 3, my husband is the main applicant (mid 30s), myself (early 30s), Son (3 years)

Race: Indian

Length of stay: Husband - 11 years in SG, Myself - 6 years, Son born in SG

Occupation: my husband is working as an engineering consultant in power/energy/electricity sector, I am working as a program manager (admin manager) for a semi-govt firm.

Education: Husband - Masters in Engineering from NUS, I have MBA from India, Son attending Sparkletots

Salary: Combined annual salary is around 160 K

My husband came to Singapore in 2009 for his Masters program and he stayed on here. I came here in 2014 after our marriage. This is our second PR application. First one was in 2015 and it was rejected in 3 months time. Second application was in 2020 July and it is rejected in exactly 6 months time.

We submitted two other relevant documents with our application - I have been volunteering with National Heritage Board as a Museum docent since 2015. And my husband speaks Mandarin in a reasonable way. He has HSK Level 4 certificate.

To be honest, we expected a rejection but we thought it is worth to try.
Please provide individual salaries.

Ethnicity and salary may be an issue.

the observer
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 519
Joined: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 11:57 am
Answers: 1

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by the observer » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 9:52 am

Reason : Ethnic quotas

Reason for Quotas: maintaining the same ethnic composition

Reason for maintaining the CMIO ratios: Politics and racial harmony

It’s all documented here and there, you just need to read parliamentary quotes and make your own deductions. I’ve stuck a few links up before.

When did this start turning into a political issue?
This started festering around 2008-9.
The 2011 general election popular vote gapped down after that, and losing Aljunied grc for the first time.

Fast forward to 2020, it’s now sengkang grc.
So, I don’t think quotas will be relaxed in any way.

SGIndian
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 8:45 am

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by SGIndian » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:19 am

Yeah, we know that it has to do with the quota thing.

Salary has less to do in our own limited data sets. My husband has friends (and their extended friends) and most of them came for their higher studies in Singapore. Some of our friends got their PR when they were earning just 4.5-6 k per month and only husband working. These people got PR in 2015-17 time when it was even more stringent for Indians. We also know some Indians who came in 2013-15 time who got PR by now.

And my husband's PRC classmates/ lab mates in NUS are becoming citizens already. If you purely look from integration perspective, both first generation Indians and PRCs are not easily integrating into local society.

It is hard to deduce why one is successful or not by pure merits. In our opinion, there isn't any merit based system. It is more of a race/ ethnicity based system.

And most funny thing is my husband had a PR invitation letter he received in 2009 when he just started his MEngg program :) He finished MEngg in 2011 and got job immediately. He approached ICA with this letter, but they told that it is not valid anymore. Haha..

the observer
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 519
Joined: Mon, 20 Jul 2020 11:57 am
Answers: 1

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by the observer » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:39 am

With the quotas, just like the coe, there’s the function of demand and supply.
Supply is presumably constant/limited for Indians.

So, if you happen to have applied at a time when there’s fewer applicants that particular period, your odds are theoretically better.

Clearly, with this pandemic, bumper demand are expected.

In any case, your guess is as good as mine about improving chances.

But parliamentary speeches touched on integration and commitment.

To me, integration is about the community.
Commitment, I interpret it as paying the house stamp duty. Lol.
And no bayshore, melville park, mandarin gardens etc.

smoulder
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 959
Joined: Fri, 25 Dec 2015 11:05 pm

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by smoulder » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:54 am

Aside from salary and the obvious difficulties due to ethnic quotas, I wonder if your husband not invoking his PR invitation back in the day will forever come back to haunt you. The government will probably view it as a lack of interest/rejection of PR. And they are known to have a long memory.

User avatar
PNGMK
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8647
Joined: Thu, 21 Mar 2013 9:06 pm
Answers: 1
Location: Sinkapore

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 11:06 am

smoulder wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:54 am
Aside from salary and the obvious difficulties due to ethnic quotas, I wonder if your husband not invoking his PR invitation back in the day will forever come back to haunt you. The government will probably view it as a lack of interest/rejection of PR. And they are known to have a long memory.
Yep. Seriously big mistake. IT will take years of repeated applications to over come this I suspect.

I think the reasoning inside ICA is this:

Clerk: Hey Mas, this one reject PR before huh?

Boss: Ya lah - we send letter right?

Clerk: You know me boss, I always do so.

Boss: Oh now he wan PR huh? Why so like that?

Clerk: He got marry, maybe wife bully him to get PR to buy resale flat or what?

Boss: He so stoopid, now we don know if he wan to become citizen later or just go for PR for nothing huh? What do do?

Clerk: Aiyah, just let me cancel this one, so many more in the pile to process lah and I wan my kopi & rokok now.

Boss: Ok you round file this one. You go kopi and bring me back some kopi peng, blary boss want to summons me up for what I dun know.

(Hint: if you can't follow the above, you aren't integrated).
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

SGIndian
Newbie
Newbie
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri, 15 Jan 2021 8:45 am

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by SGIndian » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 11:14 am

His PR invitation letter clearly stated that "upon successful completion of your MEngg and getting a job in Singapore". He got provisional degree from NUS in 2011 Nov/Dec and was already working on EP by then. He went to ICA around this period. There isn't any mistake from his part, to begin with.

therat
Reporter
Reporter
Posts: 889
Joined: Thu, 04 Sep 2008 2:23 pm

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by therat » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 11:33 am

quote from SGIndian
He finished MEngg in 2011 and got job immediately. He approached ICA with this letter, but they told that it is not valid anymore.

quote from the observer
"The 2011 general election popular vote gapped down after that, and losing Aljunied grc for the first time."

After 2011 GE, alot of things has change

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39564
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 12:46 pm

SGIndian wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:19 am
And most funny thing is my husband had a PR invitation letter he received in 2009 when he just started his MEngg program :) He finished MEngg in 2011 and got job immediately. He approached ICA with this letter, but they told that it is not valid anymore. Haha..
There is were the problem started. He should have taken up the invitation in 2009, e.g., signaled his intentions to take up PR. He shouldn't have waited until he found a job after graduation. They wanted the commitment in 2009. Obviously he would have been written off after two years of not responding to the letter. As PNGMK said, the ICA and the MOM both have long, long memories. While his response was cute, it was spot on and damned accurate as well.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

tiktok
Chatter
Chatter
Posts: 418
Joined: Mon, 21 Jan 2019 5:04 pm

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by tiktok » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 12:56 pm

SGIndian wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:19 am
In our opinion, there isn't any merit based system. It is more of a race/ ethnicity based system.
You're right, and I hope more people start calling it what it really is - a variant of Apartheid, i.e. non-indigeninous people using discrimination to remain in power.
I not troll/wacko/spammer.
Me no expat. Me foreigner.

nkhant
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu, 07 Jan 2010 2:56 pm
Answers: 1

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by nkhant » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 1:09 pm

SGIndian wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:19 am
And most funny thing is my husband had a PR invitation letter he received in 2009 when he just started his MEngg program :) He finished MEngg in 2011 and got job immediately. He approached ICA with this letter, but they told that it is not valid anymore. Haha..
I remember the letter said something like "to apply PR once you obtained employment after the graduation". I've included the letter with my application, and rejected too.

User avatar
sundaymorningstaple
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 39564
Joined: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 1:26 pm
Answers: 10
Location: Retired on the Little Red Dot

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 2:34 pm

tiktok wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 12:56 pm
SGIndian wrote:
Fri, 15 Jan 2021 10:19 am
In our opinion, there isn't any merit based system. It is more of a race/ ethnicity based system.
You're right, and I hope more people start calling it what it really is - a variant of Apartheid, i.e. non-indigeninous people using discrimination to remain in power.
The government hasn't ever said it wasn't. In fact in the past couple of years they have stated quite openly that they use immigration to keep the ethnic levels at a level 'they' are comfortable with. These percentages are well known. It is also know that the Chinese have the lowest TRF of the three major races here, with Malay the highest (but still abysmally low) with Indians somewhere in the middle. There aren't any surprises. So with the quotas easily figured out, and the bulk of the applications coming from the race with only 7~8% of the demographic, then the other factors play an important part (not in the overall annual quota but in the demographic quota. You are not competing against Chinese & Malays and Caucasian, etc, but only among your ethnic demographic. The faster that demographic reaches it saturation point for the year, regardless of your credos you will have to reapply in a later year (unless you are a rocket scientist or brain surgeon. Oh, and that's why often you hear of co-workers of the same race getting theirs but you not getting yours even with a similar profile. It often depends on when you file compared with others that are within your demographic. Add to that, strenuous background checks of families and potential family baggage as well.

Oh, and I hope to hell the indigenous members of this society never get into power. Their northern relatives (and they ARE all related) have made a mess of Malaysia and with their 'live for today' mentality, Singapore would soon be part of Malaysia again.
SOME PEOPLE TRY TO TURN BACK THEIR ODOMETERS. NOT ME. I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW WHY I LOOK THIS WAY. I'VE TRAVELED A LONG WAY, AND SOME OF THE ROADS WEREN'T PAVED. ~ Will Rogers

DreamDream
Member
Member
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat, 09 Jan 2021 9:54 am

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by DreamDream » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 3:14 pm

SGIndian wrote:Hi,
I have been following this forum for many years and thought of sharing our unsuccessful attempt to get PR.
Our profile:
Applied as family of 3, my husband is the main applicant (mid 30s), myself (early 30s), Son (3 years)

Race: Indian

Length of stay: Husband - 11 years in SG, Myself - 6 years, Son born in SG

Occupation: my husband is working as an engineering consultant in power/energy/electricity sector, I am working as a program manager (admin manager) for a semi-govt firm.

Education: Husband - Masters in Engineering from NUS, I have MBA from India, Son attending Sparkletots

Salary: Combined annual salary is around 160 K

My husband came to Singapore in 2009 for his Masters program and he stayed on here. I came here in 2014 after our marriage. This is our second PR application. First one was in 2015 and it was rejected in 3 months time. Second application was in 2020 July and it is rejected in exactly 6 months time.

We submitted two other relevant documents with our application - I have been volunteering with National Heritage Board as a Museum docent since 2015. And my husband speaks Mandarin in a reasonable way. He has HSK Level 4 certificate.

To be honest, we expected a rejection but we thought it is worth to try.
Gajini mhd won at 17th attempt. Don’t think too much. Give a try after reasonable time say 2y

simple_guy
Regular
Regular
Posts: 96
Joined: Tue, 17 Nov 2020 6:23 am

Re: PR rejected 2nd time, Indian

Post by simple_guy » Fri, 15 Jan 2021 5:14 pm

At first look of above post for a second, I thought who got PR in 17th Attempt :o ! Later realized :)

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “PR, Citizenship, Passes & Visas for Foreigners”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: truthhurts1 and 6 guests