PR Approval Probability 2021

[singaporeflyer]

Honestly? Not going to be easy. However, my gut says why not try at least once. Working in a Gov't agency. and for 3 years the salary seems to be within an okay range. As noted by yourself, ethnicity/nationality might be the biggest stumbling block as you are going to be tossed in the 7.5% 'I' group in CMIO. with huge number of applicants for the least number of vacancies. Other than that, maybe not here long enough, but if it your only employer since arriving it's worth a shot. Just don't bet all your marbles on it.

Hi Sms,

I wonder if growing (position and income) in the same company is better for PR than changing jobs. I think it is as it shows stability of the company and industry and diligence of the candidate. What's your opinion?

You might know that software engineers usually change jobs every 3 years on average. Some do it more often. And it's considered normal.

P.S. And by staying the foreigner doesn't steal new openings from locals

It is very subjective. If someone changes job example after 3 years and it shows an up move in both his career and salary then yes it is positive.

3 years in IT in a company with a good up move wont be counted as negative in my view.

P.S. And by staying the foreigner doesn't steal new openings from locals

Still does as if in case the person leaves, that position can be replaced with a local staff

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

Honestly? Not going to be easy. However, my gut says why not try at least once. Working in a Gov't agency. and for 3 years the salary seems to be within an okay range. As noted by yourself, ethnicity/nationality might be the biggest stumbling block as you are going to be tossed in the 7.5% 'I' group in CMIO. with huge number of applicants for the least number of vacancies. Other than that, maybe not here long enough, but if it your only employer since arriving it's worth a shot. Just don't bet all your marbles on it.

Hi Sms,

I wonder if growing (position and income) in the same company is better for PR than changing jobs. I think it is as it shows stability of the company and industry and diligence of the candidate. What's your opinion?

You might know that software engineers usually change jobs every 3 years on average. Some do it more often. And it's considered normal.

P.S. And by staying the foreigner doesn't steal new openings from locals

It is very subjective. If someone changes job example after 3 years and it shows an up move in both his career and salary then yes it is positive.

3 years in IT in a company with a good up move wont be counted as negative in my view.

P.S. And by staying the foreigner doesn't steal new openings from locals

Still does as if in case the person leaves, that position can be replaced with a local staff

Depends on the position and skills required, right?

[smoulder]

^ there's usually someone, the only question is how many of them exist.

If there aren't enough, then I can bet that it would be possible to train people - they won't immediately be able to fill that job, but they will in time. The issue I see is that there aren't enough people who are actually interested in choosing this career path.

But this is a topic by itself - how people grumble that there are too many ah nehs and foreigners in IT and that there "must be" plenty of locals who could do the job instead because we have the best universities bla bla bla.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

^ there's usually someone, the only question is how many of them exist.

If there aren't enough, then I can bet that it would be possible to train people - they won't immediately be able to fill that job, but they will in time. The issue I see is that there aren't enough people who are actually interested in choosing this career path.

But this is a topic by itself - how people grumble that there are too many ah nehs and foreigners in IT and that there "must be" plenty of locals who could do the job instead because we have the best universities bla bla bla.

I agree.
But why is that?

The pay is good. And IT is not the kind of industry that will die anytime soon.

[mystic_river]

[quote=smoulder post_id=855425 time=<a href="tel:1633577955">1633577955</a> user_id=197076]
^ there's usually someone, the only question is how many of them exist.

If there aren't enough, then I can bet that it would be possible to train people - they won't immediately be able to fill that job, but they will in time. The issue I see is that there aren't enough people who are actually interested in choosing this career path.

But this is a topic by itself - how people grumble that there are too many ah nehs and foreigners in IT and that there "must be" plenty of locals who could do the job instead because we have the best universities bla bla bla.

I agree.
But why is that?

The pay is good. And IT is not the kind of industry that will die anytime soon.
[/quote]

Multitude of reasons but one reason that stands out, after having gone through the local education system, is simply the mindset. It’s just not glamorous enough. At least back in my day, locals would rather go into business/finance degrees (esp if you do well enough in a levels. And if you don’t, then you go overseas). Engineering courses were a dumping ground.

I believe that mindset is changing, esp with regards to computer science/engineering, but it isn’t changing fast enough (demand still trumps supply). And as someone who did engineering from a local U, 70% of the cohort were full of students from India and china.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

Multitude of reasons but one reason that stands out, after having gone through the local education system, is simply the mindset. It’s just not glamorous enough.

oh, looks like I'm quite rational about my job
I like the pay. I like what I do. I'm happy. No matter how glamorous it is.

[smoulder]

^ there's usually someone, the only question is how many of them exist.

If there aren't enough, then I can bet that it would be possible to train people - they won't immediately be able to fill that job, but they will in time. The issue I see is that there aren't enough people who are actually interested in choosing this career path.

But this is a topic by itself - how people grumble that there are too many ah nehs and foreigners in IT and that there "must be" plenty of locals who could do the job instead because we have the best universities bla bla bla.

I agree.
But why is that?

The pay is good. And IT is not the kind of industry that will die anytime soon.

Not sure why. I guess that people don't really find it interesting enough despite the pay. So when it comes to the aforementioned grumbling about foreigners they know that "they" are not the people who want to get into IT and they assume that some other local people must be trying hard but getting pushed out by foreigners. When in fact everyone is thinking that and in the end too few are actually in IT. Oh and of course, some of these grumblers would enjoy the salaries on offer, just that they don't really want to do the associated work.

[PartyLike-A-Russian]

^ there's usually someone, the only question is how many of them exist.

If there aren't enough, then I can bet that it would be possible to train people - they won't immediately be able to fill that job, but they will in time. The issue I see is that there aren't enough people who are actually interested in choosing this career path.

But this is a topic by itself - how people grumble that there are too many ah nehs and foreigners in IT and that there "must be" plenty of locals who could do the job instead because we have the best universities bla bla bla.

I agree.
But why is that?

The pay is good. And IT is not the kind of industry that will die anytime soon.

Not sure why. I guess that people don't really find it interesting enough despite the pay. So when it comes to the aforementioned grumbling about foreigners they know that "they" are not the people who want to get into IT and they assume that some other local people must be trying hard but getting pushed out by foreigners. When in fact everyone is thinking that and in the end too few are actually in IT. Oh and of course, some of these grumblers would enjoy the salaries on offer, just that they don't really want to do the associated work.

Quite a different subject I've been thinking about for some time.

Regardless of the country, "Foreigners are coming here and taking away our jobs" is an old song. It gets louder in a time of crises. Like the present COVID-19, for example.
I wonder. What the ratio of whining to valid concerns in it?

Humans, including myself (at least I recognise it), tend to blame everyone around for their problems. Government, technology, more successful neighbours, foreigners. Everyone, excluding themselves.

So when you hear others whining about foreigners, etc., do you think the system is really unfair or it's just pointless complaining of a lazy person?

[sundaymorningstaple]

^^^^^Your last 8 words says it all.

[smoulder]

The system is not unfair - the thought that it favors Indians who are the usual target for blame when it comes to IT jobs, is hilarious. Whoever is saying that really has no clue what he's talking about.

Where I see that they could do something differently is to find ways to encourage local grads to take up IT jobs.

Specific to India, since the world over, many IT jobs are taken by us - there is quite an ecosystem of local and foreign companies in India that provide IT services. I'm not sure how other countries can replicate it, but from what I can see, it's one of the key reasons why we do what we do - most of us have been through this pipeline. It is an important part of turning us from college grads with no experience into college grads with on the job training and experience.

[Pantsgrenadier]

Just got rejected PR for the 2nd time, but want to share my profile anyway.

Myself:
Age: 29
Race: Vietnamese
Nationality: Vietnamese
Length of stay: 11 years
Education: Bachelor of Civil Engineering NUS
Work: 7 year, Construction industry
Salary: 60K annual
Pass: EP
Married Oct 2020, no kid yet

Wife:
Age: 33
Race: Vietnamese
Nationality: Singaporean
Education: Accounting Degree NTU
Salary: 84K annual (including CPF)

1st Application: Under PTS. Applied Nov 19. Rejected May 20.
2nd Application: Wife Sponsor. Applied Feb 21. Rejected Sep 21.

Other fact: When we got married she was still a PR. Her citizenship application was approved 1 week after our wedding.

From what I understand, 2 or more years of marriage and kid(s) may increase my chance for the next application? To be honest, though not unexpected, I'm still a bit disappointed abt this rejection. Was hoping that I could get this round, so can share the house loan with my wife, which we plan to buy next year. Getting kids without a permanent place is a bit tiresome haha.

Any thoughts or comments are welcomed

[sp786]

The system is not unfair - the thought that it favors Indians who are the usual target for blame when it comes to IT jobs, is hilarious. Whoever is saying that really has no clue what he's talking about.

Where I see that they could do something differently is to find ways to encourage local grads to take up IT jobs.

Specific to India, since the world over, many IT jobs are taken by us - there is quite an ecosystem of local and foreign companies in India that provide IT services. I'm not sure how other countries can replicate it, but from what I can see, it's one of the key reasons why we do what we do - most of us have been through this pipeline. It is an important part of turning us from college grads with no experience into college grads with on the job training and experience.

Those are local Wu Maos. They're mocking at the FICA saying Indians being given PR or Citizenship is oso Foreign Interference!

[Tay Za]

May i know how to submit the appeal for rejection
Thanks

[smoulder]

Through your local MP. They have these meet the people sessions - find out who and where and walk in on the day. Usually it's open to spouses of Singapore citizens (to appeal PR or citizenship rejection). But keep in mind, there is no anecdotal evidence of success via application after appealing.

PS - I did appeal my rejection a couple of years ago - it was rejected again a month later.

[singaporeflyer]

Through your local MP. They have these meet the people sessions - find out who and where and walk in on the day. Usually it's open to spouses of Singapore citizens (to appeal PR or citizenship rejection). But keep in mind, there is no anecdotal evidence of success via application after appealing.

PS - I did appeal my rejection a couple of years ago - it was rejected again a month later.

Not really. You can write in your own letter on why you are appealing. What are the reasons with supported documents if any.