Job losses among foreigners

[sundaymorningstaple]

Simple explanation but not all inclusive. No it will not. I believe that if one delves into the 9 in 10 figure it may well be found that a high percentage of those 9 will be from the F&B sector where it is traditionally hard to get Singaporeans to work even in boom times (not talking about business owners but staff). I don't think the link will be found in other industries, (certainly not construction or shipbuilding). I can see it having some impact in the IT sector but not too much. Same with the financial sector. More my opinion than anything, but with 25 years of HR management here in Singapore as a personal data source.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Sorry, had to take down the link which has the details but it’s available if you google the headline.

Although, I would assume that the breadth of jobs a foreigners can do in Singapore is greater than what it is in HK (HK is hugely finance centric). But given the present circumstances in Singapore, what stops the firms from moving some tech/admin jobs out of Singapore and into Hong Kong.

At the moment, covid is stopping most companies and personnel from movements. Additionally, backends have been moving to lower cost centres of operations like India, Philippines, Pakistan, and so forth. As the economy shrinks globally, and the succeeding waves of Covid infections/deaths is more or less causing bleeding where you lie without the necessary ambulances necessary to move companies to a better facility. Where will it stop? I don't know. I daresay, the world is a lot dumber than I originally thought. The IT backends have been shifting for the past 5 years away from Singapore.

[malcontent]

Hear you @sundaymorningstaple. So then I don’t understand why the foreigners keep flocking to Singapore (say compared to HK). Hong Kong has much more foreigners-friendly, pro-business policies.

I’ve been to HK many times, it is even more crowded and expensive than here, and in my experience, not as foreigner-friendly (mainlander and gweilo alike).

Singapore, on the other hand, looks very transactional to me. Foreigners seems to be at the ‘back of the queue’ systematically. You have to leave the country within 30 days - I’m not sure what happens to your kids if they are in the middle of a school year. It’s harder to find employment for your dependents if they wish to work. The punishment for foreigners feel disproportionate to the transgressions they committed (Robertson Quay incident). And, so on and so forth.

Singapore runs a tight ship, but I have found them to be very reasonable as well. Nobody who has lived here any meaningful amount of time should be surprised by the seemingly disproportionate level of punishment. That is the secret sauce of how order is kept here... by making examples out of those who step out of line, especially flagrant offenders. Nobody gets a free pass, local or foreigner.

[Wd40]

I think it is more to do with which country do companies like to setup their Asia head office, IT back office etc.

Most banks seem to like Singapore. I think only HSBC and Morgan Stanley have large IT back office in Hong Kong.

SCB, Citi, JPM, CS, Barclays, Soc Gen, Deutsche etc are all in Singapore.

Sent from my Redmi Note 10X using Tapatalk

[Max Headroom]

Yeah, Singapore is referred to as "Asia Light", the gateway to The East, whereas HK tends to be somewhat more hardcore oriental, especially post-1997 I suppose, and especially these days. You're sort of straddling both east and west when you're based in Singapore, probably a bit more committed to the east when based in HK. Well, that, or perhaps you weren't able to get into Singapore for some reason or another.

[malcontent]

For the typical expat, I suspect it’s the bread and butter issues, things like cost & quality of living, ease of doing business & political stability... these considerations are at the fore.

For long-term expats who are settling down on a more permanent basis, that is when cultural aspects start to take on more consideration.

On a side note, I would say western expats tend to be more valued and respected here as compared to HK. Even the slang is a little kinder, red hair vs. white devil.

[Max Headroom]

If I recall correctly, angmoh is actually short for "ang moh gui", which is what western peeps were called back then. I've seen "gui" translated as "ghost" and.... "devil". Either way, I'm sure it was meant affectionately

[sundaymorningstaple]

Max, it's just like the chinese language in general, it's a tonal language. The tone used usually will determine whether it's a slur or affection.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I've spend the last 38 years in Asia. I've heard it used both ways (and a few others) although I'd have to say mostly affectionately considering I'm married to an Asian (although the tamil comments I get in Tekka aren't affectionate at all - but that a different kettle of fish altogether).

[malcontent]

You’ve got 14 years on me SMS, but to be honest I’ve never felt anything but affection (or at worst, indifference) whether I’ve been called an ‘ang mo’ in Singapore, a ‘mat selleh’ in Malaysia, a ‘bule’ in Indonesia, a ‘farang’ in Thailand or a ‘kano’ in the Philippines. There is little if any PC nonsense in Asia, which is a good thing in my opinion.

I’ve also been called a ‘chao ang mo’ ...but only by flirtatious girls when I make crude jokes

[Max Headroom]

Yeah, I love this place for many reasons, the blissful absence of the rabid PC crowd being a major one of them.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Mal, I've heard that term on occasion as well. The mid 80's through the 90's things were still a little more wild and the occasional brawls between locals & expats broke out. It wasn't all sweet & cuddles back then. I witnessed the brawl that resulted in the closure of the Offshore Land Club at the top of the Anson Building (they were open till 4ish in the morning) I left and went straight to the airport at Seletar where I caught the Grumman Albatross that was chartered by Conoco to fly back offshore that morning. There was another brawl where an expat was killed by a gang of locals sporting changols and pipes at a bus stop outside of the Boots & Saddles club in Sembawang (fortunately not one of the nights I was in town) where I was also a regular when in town. However, I must admit, the last two decades have been pretty tame.

[malcontent]

SMS, you’ve got so many years and so many stories to tell... maybe you should consider writing a book?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Tell you what, Mal, I'd like to have $5 for every time somebody told me that. I guess that's what happens when one follows their heart rather than their brain. That philosophy has caused a syndrome called "an empty bucket list". But, who knows.....if something new strikes a chord with me, I'll probably be off and running like an over-aged kid. Again. I've had an interesting run, to say the least.

At least this way, in my old age (whenever that is), I'll not be one who say's "Darn, I should have tried that when I was younger."

[tiktok]

Max, it's just like the chinese language in general, it's a tonal language. The tone used usually will determine whether it's a slur or affection.

Joke right? Tones in Chinese determine the meaning. "Sei" in Cantonese can mean die or four or other things depending on the tone.

Anyway, "gweilo" is mildly derogatory, because in minds of hkers it means something like "weird foreign people". I don't think "ang moh" has the same weight.