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Choosing a race

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malcontent
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Choosing a race

Post by malcontent » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 6:08 pm

This topic was started on an unrelated thread. Here is the question, what race should one choose if they are able to pick either Eurasian, Caucasian-Chinese or Chinese-Caucasian?

For self-help groups, there is quite a difference between Eurasian ECF and Chinese CDAC. I guess Caucasian-Chinese would not attract contributions for any self-help group? I guess you can always opt out anyway, so maybe it’s not really a major point of consideration.

For the purposes of HBD ethnic quotas, I believe Eurasian & Caucasian-Chinese are both considered ‘Others’ and Chinese-Caucasian is considered Chinese. I have heard that a Chinese owned HDB is easier to sell, and sometimes gets a higher price. But when the buyer is Others, can they only buy from Others, or it depends on how full the quota is for that block? I have seen some blocks in popular city fringe areas that say Chinese quota is full, does that mean Others still have a chance? How about when buying BTO?

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 7:05 pm

Malcontent,

On a separate note, you have a PM.

sms

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by smoulder » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 7:40 pm

Malcontent, what is your source of information for the rules for choosing race? I would like to know since I will soon need to take a decision.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by malcontent » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 8:25 pm

smoulder, you said you have your daughter listed as Chinese-Indian. Unlike Eurasian, I believe there is no Chindian option (i.e. no way to be in the “Others” basket). I believe the first listed race is considered primary, so she will be grouped with other Chinese for the purposes of ethnic quotas if she ever wanted to buy and HDB. From what I have read, there are pros/cons, but it seems like most prefer to be Chinese. Being the majority race means a larger number of units are allocated to Chinese. Also, when selling, there are more Chinese buyers (with greater purchasing power) which can help the seller fetch a higher price. That same thing can work against you when buying. However, I’m not sure what happens when it’s BTO. Buying direct from HDB is reserved for Singapore citizens. If the rules haven’t changed, SC has two opportunities in a lifetime to get a new unit directly from HDB which is a far better deal than resale, and I believe they have to live a minimum of 5 years in the new HDB before they can cash in. In your case, you might want to wait and see what race your daughter marries - if she married a Chinese, then it may be an advantage to change her race at that time so that as a couple they have both race options for HDB purposes (at least that is what I read).

I’m sure there are plenty of experts out there who can confirm to deny what I’m saying. I’m certainly not an expert.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by smoulder » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 9:25 pm

Thanks. Yes I'm aware that there's no chindian category under others.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by malcontent » Wed, 09 Dec 2020 11:13 pm

Yes, eurasians seem to be the only mixed race that has this unique status, due to the long history I suppose... however chindians are a growing demographic in Singapore. Maybe one day it will have its own unique status. That said, being lumped into “Others” seems kind of undesirable, at least from what I’ve read.

I’ve put my daughter as eurasian starting from primary school and she recently got her IC with that race. Not sure if it was the right move, but it sounds like it can be changed later on if she desires.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:57 pm

I would be really careful picking Eurasian. It's a protected race to some extent and I've seen Chinese/European couples try to use it and run afoul of rules around it.

A Eurasian here is a person of Eurasian descent.... not a recently made Chindian or MalayPutih.

My son has this issue (half white, half Javanese) and he simply went with his father's race ('caucasian') as he passes for that anyways.
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Re: Choosing a race

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:59 pm

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 09 Dec 2020 6:08 pm
This topic was started on an unrelated thread. Here is the question, what race should one choose if they are able to pick either Eurasian, Caucasian-Chinese or Chinese-Caucasian?

For self-help groups, there is quite a difference between Eurasian ECF and Chinese CDAC. I guess Caucasian-Chinese would not attract contributions for any self-help group? I guess you can always opt out anyway, so maybe it’s not really a major point of consideration.

For the purposes of HBD ethnic quotas, I believe Eurasian & Caucasian-Chinese are both considered ‘Others’ and Chinese-Caucasian is considered Chinese. I have heard that a Chinese owned HDB is easier to sell, and sometimes gets a higher price. But when the buyer is Others, can they only buy from Others, or it depends on how full the quota is for that block? I have seen some blocks in popular city fringe areas that say Chinese quota is full, does that mean Others still have a chance? How about when buying BTO?
My ex was "Javanese", she bought a Chinese owned resale flat and when she went to sell it the bloody HDB said she could only sell it to other Malays. It's shite as far as I am concerned as it really impacted the value.
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Re: Choosing a race

Post by smoulder » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 1:15 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Thu, 10 Dec 2020 12:57 pm
I would be really careful picking Eurasian. It's a protected race to some extent and I've seen Chinese/European couples try to use it and run afoul of rules around it.

A Eurasian here is a person of Eurasian descent.... not a recently made Chindian or MalayPutih.

My son has this issue (half white, half Javanese) and he simply went with his father's race ('caucasian') as he passes for that anyways.
I had to look this up. It sounds very similar to the Anglo Indian classification in India.

Seems that a double barrelled race would be something like European (or Caucasian?) - Malay or Chinese-European vs Eurasian just like what you said. Source - Wikipedia.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by smoulder » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 1:22 pm

Some more info I gathered - you have 4 options.
1) fathers race
2) mothers race
3) double barrelled race - father's race - mother's race
4) double barrelled race - mother's race - Father's race

For the last 2 options, the first race is the dominant one which will take precedence for mother tongue and hdb quotas.

https://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne%2B ... 20Jan%2012.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by malcontent » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 1:30 pm

Here is what it says on the CPF website under the self-help funds:

For the Eurasian Community Fund (ECF), employees refer to Singapore Citizens and Permanent Residents, belonging to the Eurasian* community.

* Refers to a person defined as "Eurasian" in their identity card, or a person of both European and Asian ancestry

My daughter received a monetary award from the Eurasian Association for scoring in the top 25% on the PSLE a few years back. We had to attend a ceremony in person to collect it.


At this event there seemed to be a mix of old-school Eurasians (with their distinctive and proud traditions), together with newcomers who are more “generically local” while still being racially Eurasian. I’m not sure where to draw the line on this one, or if there even is one. There seems to be some indifference toward new Eurasians, but at the same time, any famous Eurasian person is often held up as proud example, even they are relative newcomers.

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Re: Choosing a race

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 3:49 pm

I have a few Eurasian friends (some who are ex divers!) and they will tell you about their Portugese roots etc all the way back but I don't understand how they include newcomers to their community.... I'll ask them next time.
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Re: Choosing a race

Post by malcontent » Thu, 10 Dec 2020 8:18 pm

Back to the ethnic integration policy of the HDB, here is what I dug up:

Quotas: Neighborhood/Block
Malays: 22%/25%
Chinese: 84%/87%
Indians/Others: 12%/15%
Non-Malaysian PR: 5%/8%

For buyers, very often the only units left after initial BTO sale-of-balance launch are all reserved for non-Chinese, which gives non-Chinese an advantage. Similarly, in the resale market where the Chinese quota is full, a non-Chinese is able to buy a unit from any ethnicity, and since the pool of buyers is limited, you may be able to swing a better price too.

However, as a non-Chinese attempting to sell a unit, if the Chinese quota is full, you must find a non-Chinese buyer... the limited pool means it could take longer and you may have to settle for a lower price.

So I guess there are pros/cons, but I think non-Chinese opens up more opportunities, even if there is some residual sacrifice later on, but that could be mitigated with some patience.

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