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EP is the new PR

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Wd40
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EP is the new PR

Post by Wd40 » Fri, 30 Oct 2020 9:39 pm

Got my EP approved for another 3 years. I have been here for 11 years already, so +3 years. That is more than how long the average PR stays in Singapore, before giving it up, isnt it?

So EP is the new PR, for those of us who have been rejected continuously more than 5-6 times, what say?

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by midlet2013 » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 12:09 am

Thats a good perspective, but why do you think you have been rejected so many times other than bad luck.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by Wd40 » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 10:01 am

midlet2013 wrote:
Sat, 31 Oct 2020 12:09 am
Thats a good perspective, but why do you think you have been rejected so many times other than bad luck.
Not bad luck. They take in 30k PRs every year and several times of that number apply for PR, so they can pick and choose who they want. There are certain types they would like to go take up PR who then become the pool for prospective citizenship. There are others who they want to stay here as long as they can contribute to the economy. For the later category they have EP. Sounds fair and square?

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by malcontent » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:18 am

I have always thought they should have something in between EP and PR, something less than permanent but more than temporary.

The LTVP+ is sort of going that direction, but is only for a narrowly defined group.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 12:32 pm

malcontent,

I understand where you are coming from. After a long time here I've come to realize that they seriously don't have the infrastructure to hold '0,000's of unemployed loafers without jobs. EP to PR was the reason in the beginning for the intermediate PEP (which didn't require a company sponsored work pass). As the income requirements were onerous for most people, it precluded the avalanche of those coming from 3rd world countries and homesteading here. I know it's rough, but let's face it, it would be easy, under normal conditions, to overload the existing infrastructure an put a strain on a lot the resident population. Especially when trying to evict non-paying renters who ran out of money. If they are working, no issue, there are 3 types of work passes. Just my take.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by malcontent » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 7:20 pm

Good points SMS, I couldn’t agree more on the constraints here, they certainly can’t just let in any Tom, Dick or Harry. I almost forgot about PEP, but that one is only good for 3 years and can’t be renewed, so I never looked at it seriously.

What I’m suggesting is for those have been on an EP longer than say 10 years, they become eligible for an LTEP (long-term EP) that lasts 5 years like REP but works like PEP and can be renewed.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 8:42 pm

The original PEP was created to meet that need but it was abused so criteria was tightened up considerably. Original when it was first introduced it was for 5 years duration (non-renewable) and the salary requirement was originally $7000 SGD/month or equivalent if not yet in Singapore. P1 pass holders were given a free transfer if desired if already on a P1 EP (old 3-tier EP scale). The PEP was originally introduced in early 2007.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by malcontent » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 10:25 pm

I like the PEP concept, but being non-renewable puts a fork in the road.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by Wd40 » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 10:43 pm

In my view the EP is pretty good enough. It is about our mindset. We just have to accept that if we lose our job, we will have to leave the country and have to change our lifestyle accordingly for example, no buying a house, renting instead etc. You just need to find a stable company and then it is as good as a PR. The govt has recently started tightening on the minimum pay. But to be fair, you need to be paid well for it to be worthwhile living in Singapore. So, if you meet that requirement, there is really no need to harbour hard feelings about not being given PR. You can have a great time here for 10, 20 or maybe even 30 years on EP, who knows.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by Merlee » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:44 pm

What do u mean PEP is Non renewable ?

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Sat, 31 Oct 2020 11:50 pm

It is granted one time only. After that, if you haven't applied for PR (as it was designed to be used for) you will have to HOPE that your employer can get an EP approved for you. Otherwise, you will find yourself out of a job and on a 30 SVP preparing to leave the country. (No extensions are allowed for end of visa SVPs). The three years are to give you enough time to figure out if you want to stay in Singapore permanently (PR stands for Permanent Resident). This was designed to give you 5 years here to determine if you like the country enough to want to remain here with their approval. Basically two years on a top level EP and 3 years on a PEP is more than sufficient time to figure that out.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by PNGMK » Sun, 01 Nov 2020 10:48 am

WD40 has it right. I know at least a few former offshore types who have been here on EP's since the late 80s (Stu K for one). That's over 30 years! They have no interest in becoming PR's.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by Wd40 » Sun, 01 Nov 2020 11:47 am

PNGMK wrote:
Sun, 01 Nov 2020 10:48 am
WD40 has it right. I know at least a few former offshore types who have been here on EP's since the late 80s (Stu K for one). That's over 30 years! They have no interest in becoming PR's.
I know someone who came here 25 yrs ago on EP, applied for PR, stayed here for a few years on PR, then cancelled PR, went back to India. Didnt like India and came back to Singapore on EP. Now continues to remain here on EP since 2014. He is 50yrs old. He has a son who is now junior college in India. I am guessing, he cancelled his PR to avoid his son doing NS. I am like, what a waste, he should just stayed on EP all along.
Last edited by Wd40 on Sun, 01 Nov 2020 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by BigginHill » Sun, 01 Nov 2020 12:55 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 9:39 pm
So EP is the new PR, for those of us who have been rejected continuously more than 5-6 times, what say?
Yay. (15 yrs, 3 rejections)

Completely agree about settling into a transactional acceptance. I used to be bitter about the rejections, but SG never owed or promised us anything. So yeah.

Having to cross your fingers every 3 years is not ideal, but those are the terms. Always make sure to keep a valid "next step" plan.

Major drawbacks on EP:

- You'll never truly make SG your permanent home, unless you marry a local.
- Buying local real estate as EP seems pointless, as you're never assured of residency, not to mention the punitive 24% stamp duty.

SG was founded & managed for one purpose only - business. So that's what it is.

(btw, another PEP disqualifier - you can't be employed in your own company)

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Re: EP is the new PR

Post by Wd40 » Sun, 01 Nov 2020 11:11 pm

BigginHill wrote:
Sun, 01 Nov 2020 12:55 pm
Wd40 wrote:
Fri, 30 Oct 2020 9:39 pm
So EP is the new PR, for those of us who have been rejected continuously more than 5-6 times, what say?
Yay. (15 yrs, 3 rejections)

Completely agree about settling into a transactional acceptance. I used to be bitter about the rejections, but SG never owed or promised us anything. So yeah.

Having to cross your fingers every 3 years is not ideal, but those are the terms. Always make sure to keep a valid "next step" plan.

Major drawbacks on EP:

- You'll never truly make SG your permanent home, unless you marry a local.
- Buying local real estate as EP seems pointless, as you're never assured of residency, not to mention the punitive 24% stamp duty.

SG was founded & managed for one purpose only - business. So that's what it is.

(btw, another PEP disqualifier - you can't be employed in your own company)
True. In fact, it is better not to settledown too much that you get addicted with SG way of life. We have been living here, in our own bubble. Our daughter goes to Indian International School, she has Indian friends, my wife has Indian friends. We shop at Indian grocery stores, eat at Indian restaurants. We are vegetarians, so it is not like we have lots of options either. Now because of all the social media we can always be connected with our home country and it really doesnt make a difference where you live.

We applied for local school for my daughter and that application was also rejected. So it is not like we didnt try. So, maybe this is how it has to be. You lead an expat life, which is more like a long term tourist.

The great thing about Singapore tax residence is all your capital gains are tax free and the income tax rate here low. So, if you are living frugal, you can really save well. My networth hit 1million SGD this month and I am 40. When I came to SG 11yrs back my networth was 30k SGD. So SG has given me more than I asked for.

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